Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[DotCommunist]

I take it people aren't fans of Chavs then?

What's wrong with it? Apart from him being middle class.

its got some nice lines. bit ABC but then itis handholding the middle classes through why they shouldn't cunt the poor off. 'socially acceptable liberal bigotry' is a good un

 

[elbows]

Never mind check your privilege, they could use some check your princials, check your priorities, and less check your navel.

 

[Bakunin]

There's an awful lot of infighting up on that pedestal.

Well, it's a pedestal, there's only room for one.

As long as you're posh, had an expensive education, are insatiably self-promoting and egotistical, dishonest when it suits you and are generally 'one of us' obviously. The proles, however much more talent, astuteness and integrity they may have, can fuck right off, obviously.

 

[Red Cat]

It's all easy enough to avoid. I don't use twitter and since having kids I find it hard to read newspapers. The latter I tend to regret but maybe there are some positives after all, I don't know who these people are. Unless it's essential that we take them on? They don't seem very important to me. I guess I've missed the point of the thread, but do they matter?

 

[Ronnie Rubashov]

Was there a winner in the end?
Did they all agree on who was most 'entitled' to have an NS blog...maybe some one-legged black trans female who's in a coma? Cos if so, then her 'entitlement' will bestow an enormous privilege...and we'd have to start all over again.
Normally, when a theory or set of protocols keeps yielding internal contradictions or circular arguments like this, it's dismissed as 'wrong' or a paradox...and people drop it.

Additionally...what happens if we all decide to adopt privilege and intersectionality and this results in a whole new rainbow commentariat...only they're shit...boring, clunky stylists who are logically challenged and prone to pathological self-promotion?
Will criticism be dismissed as racist, misogynist, trans phobic as happens now...or will the targets of criticism feel justified in ignoring it as it'll be coming from persons of greater privilege?

It's all gone wrong...it's stupid children playing with semtex while thinking it's playdough...and I seriously hope Alan Sokal is, right now, busy working on a 'paper' or a set of Privilege Top Trumps.

 

[Bakunin]

It's all gone wrong...it's stupid children playing with semtex while thinking it's playdough...and I seriously hope Alan Sokal is, right now, busy working on a 'paper' or a set of Privilege Top Trumps.

Given that I'm a bipolar Aspie with chronic asthma, diabetes, high blood cholesterol and probable epilepsy, does that automatically entitle me to a leading and highly-paid opinion column syndicated everywhere on the planet and a series of increasingly lucrative career opportunities?

Or does it entitle me to be spoken for by self-appointed 'voices of the movement' who'll then pocket the cash and recycle my words and thoughts as their own because I'm obviously too impaired to be allowed free use of either?

 

[cesare]

It's all easy enough to avoid. I don't use twitter and since having kids I find it hard to read newspapers. The latter I tend to regret but maybe there are some positives after all, I don't know who these people are. Unless it's essential that we take them on? They don't seem very important to me. I guess I've missed the point of the thread, but do they matter?

I go through fits and starts with this myself. Periods of "of, ffs, ignore it" (which is very, very easy to do) and then at other times I take on board butcher's (I think? apologies if it was someone else) very good point that this shit infects how people perceive left wing politics especially when it's rife throughout social media; and from that point of view it should be countered.

 

[Red Cat]

I'm a bit of a social media resister (old fogey) so it's hard for me to get a handle on how powerful or otherwise this is.

 

[elbows]

I'm a bit of a social media resister (old fogey) so it's hard for me to get a handle on how powerful or otherwise this is.

Its not clear to me that the social network stuff actually adds to their readership. ie the people who read their tweets are probably the same group who would read their articles in the media. Mostly tens of thousands of followers rather than hundreds of thousands.

 

[cesare]

I'm a bit of a social media resister (old fogey) so it's hard for me to get a handle on how powerful or otherwise this is.

Well, it's TV too. Owen Jones popping up on QT for example. And they seem to have more followers reading every ill-conceived 140 character soundbite than the readership of their various rags. Off the top of my head I think LP has about 55,000 followers on Twitter. Then you have all these bloody awards where they award and applaud each other, with the attendant publicity etc

Edit: although Elbows has just put the readership/followers ratio in better perspective

 

[Ronnie Rubashov]

Given that I'm a bipolar Aspie with chronic asthma, diabetes, high blood cholesterol and probable epilepsy, does that automatically entitle me to a leading and highly-paid opinion column syndicated everywhere on the planet and a series of increasingly lucrative career ?

I'm not seeing female...or trans...or black or Muslim...so I think you know the answer. I think you're only option is the 'traditional route'. So were you the brightest kid in your private school?

 

[DotCommunist]

and the book launches. Don't forget the book launches.

 

[Ronnie Rubashov]

and the book launches. Don't forget the book launches.

Or the spontaneous 'happenings'

 

[elbows]

With the exception of certain tv performances, I still dont think any of that stuff really adds to their reach in any meaningful way. Very few people I know have heard of any of them, let alone listened to them.

 

[butchersapron]

Well, it's TV too. Owen Jones popping up on QT for example. And they seem to have more followers reading every ill-conceived 140 character soundbite than the readership of their various rags. Off the top of my head I think LP has about 55,000 followers on Twitter. Then you have all these bloody awards where they award and applaud each other, with the attendant publicity etc

Edit: although Elbows has just put the readership/followers ratio in better perspective

Owen Jones has already been on national BBC radio twice today alone - and specifically as the face/voice of the left, and so by extension, to many this is what pro-working class politics looks like and why this left says nothing to them about their life.

(Bit mangled that post but rushing here)

 

[Ronnie Rubashov]

With the exception of certain tv performances, I still dont think any of that stuff really adds to their reach in any meaningful way. Very few people I know have heard of any of them, let alone listened to them.

Yeah but very few people check their privilege with the appropriate frequency. Once they do, they'll just love being told they need to regard themselves as decadent tyrants by a bunch of Oxbridge pseudo-gobshites with cushy little writing gigs. I think we're looking at the golden dawn of egalitarianism.

 

[Red Cat]

Owen Jones has already been on national BBC radio twice today alone - and specifically as the face/voice of the left, and so by extension, to many this is what pro-working class politics looks like and why this left says nothing to them about their life.

(Bit mangled that post but rushing here)

I do still listen to the radio but I hadn't noticed him.

It looks like I'm going to have to pay more attention

 

[cesare]

I do still listen to the radio but I hadn't noticed him.

It looks like I'm going to have to pay more attention

I hadn't realised just how much coverage he's getting either.

 

[Ronnie Rubashov]

It looks like I'm going to have to pay more attention

Exactly...check your privilege. If you had you'd realise he's more or less prescribed reading and listening.

 

[Nice one]

I do still listen to the radio but I hadn't noticed him.

It looks like I'm going to have to pay more attention

not paying attention to owen jones - like the vast majority of ordinary working class people then

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Owen Jones has already been on national BBC radio twice today alone - and specifically as the face/voice of the left, and so by extension, to many this is what pro-working class politics looks like and why this left says nothing to them about their life.

(Bit mangled that post but rushing here)

No, that it. In a nutshell.

 

[elbows]

Check your privet hedge.

 

[DotCommunist]

or your privy ledge

 

[elbows]

Puss-filled wedge.

Irrelevant dredge.

Ego sledge.

 

[cesare]

not paying attention to owen jones - like the vast majority of ordinary working class people then

Because the vast majority of ordinary working class people don't watch TV, listen to the radio etc?

 

[killer b]

leafing through the guardian this morning ( ) i found in the latest column by brooker the following:

Cry Troll (crye troll) verb. Of a celebrity, to claim any member of the public uttering even the mildest criticism is nothing but an attention-seeking "troll" whose pitiful so-called existence is several rungs below that of the lowliest silverfish. See also Freedom of Screech.

who could he be talking about?

 

[Nice one]

Because the vast majority of ordinary working class people don't watch TV, listen to the radio etc?

Do they pay attention to what owen jones et al have to say for themselves though?

 

[cesare]

Do they pay attention to what owen jones et al have to say for themselves though?

Some will, some won't. But in any event I think it filters into perceptions of what "the Left" represent for normal people ie irrelevant for the most part.

 

[Athos]

Drivel Edge

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Some will, some won't. But in any event I think it filters into perceptions of what "the Left" represent for normal people ie irrelevant for the most part.

Exactly. When people think of the left at all, when they do hear voices 'opposing' the status quo, they hear Jones et al.