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Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

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I know somebody from that kinda background (private school, top university etc.) who gets very angry indeed that they can't walk into a journalism job (despite having no experience and no academic background in journalism). They went to such a and such University so therefore they are automatically better qualified etc etc.

It was a frequent drunken rant of theirs.
 
its not difficult to churn out 1500-4k words per day. Keeping it relevant, well researched and not just vapid toss is the hard bit.

when grauniad journos are getting paid to write about how they drink their cunts coffee though.....
 
Graduated in 2008.This is from 2010:

Funnily enough Oxford University have a website where you can see what the career destination is after getting a degree ie employed/in study/unemployed etc. The table are from 2008-11 , she graduated in 2007/8 but unless some seismic happened to upset the trend its a bit hard to see how 'hardly anyone she knew' didn't get a job as 50% from the English BA are employed with only 2% unemployed. The rest went on to study more.

Wadham College where she studies had just under 8% unemployed

http://public.tableausoftware.com/views/DLHE/Occupationsbycollege?:embed=yes&:toolbar=yes&:tabs=yes
 
bloke i know who studied with me at middlesex university back at the turn of the century still hasn't got a job yet. too much time worrying about tibet IMO.
 
http://pennyred.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/penny-for-your-privilege.html (from 2010)

she graduated in 2007 with an english degree. started work for one in four in autumn 2008, until at least spring 2010, presumably while doing her journalism course. i'd guess that sub-edding at the morning star in 2010 would've happened once she'd finished at the 'shitty' NCTJ

That's what you need to do to be a journalist these days. That's the minimum. That's the minimum, from a starting point of having an Oxford degree and some savings.

most people leave university with a debt
 
bloke i know who studied with me at middlesex university back at the turn of the century still hasn't got a job yet. too much time worrying about tibet IMO.

This bloke?

shelley_hywel.jpg


*showing my age
 
I have no idea if you are, in your heart, a racist or a sexist - I'm sure you're a good person. It's actually interesting to know more about your life. All I had to go on before was a picture of Stalin and a Twitter feed full of hate.
SpineyNorman signed up to the twitter on Nov 30th and there's only 125 entries, so the "Twitter feed full of hate" only takes a few minutes to read but here's a summary.

The first entry is "Pull my finger", a reference to SN's placard featuring the leader of the party that LP backed in 2010 and which according to her post-election ruminations, "held the line".

placard.jpg

Then there's a few entries about Sheffield Unite Community Section collecting money for strikers and an exchange with MIA Labour councillor Jack Scott over his failure to support pickets.

Then RTs of
  • Skynews (norn iron flegs)
  • Matthew Goodwin (fashwatcher, on breivik)
  • Proletarian Democracy (eg "Jack's mam in Jack and the Beanstalk is called Dame Trot")
  • Sheffield Socialist Party website
  • Egyptian socialist Gigi Ibrahim commenting on latest ruck with coppers
  • One of those WW2 accounts
  • Unite (Remploy job losses story)
  • Rory McKinnon of the MS (endorsing Proletarian Democracy)
Not much hate so far. Pity for Clegg and annoyance at a labour councillor is about as bad as it gets.

Around the time LP gets sent Firky's shit cartoon, SN responds to LP's idea that
lauriepenny said:
Some people just loathe women with opinions, and women in positions of power. That's what it's about
with
SN said:
Maybe it's the positions of power bit and not the woman bit some people take issue with? Not all your critics are misogynists

LP finds the U75 thread ("208 pages of personal and political abuse!"), and her chum shirey chips in with some drivel
sxip shirey said:
The post-colonial need of some English to cut down any anyone who shows a trace of drive, motivation, hope or joy is sad.

Things hot up!

An incredulous SN calls him a "pseud" and "weirdo" then asks LP why she hasn't responded to the serious posts on U75 and makes the point that
SN said:
Using remarks of a couple of idiots to avoid criticism is weak
This goes unanswered but LP uses the word "weak" (stripped of context) as an example of "just some of the things" SN has said about her "on Twitter this week".

SN RTs Delroy's questions (about the New Statesman's anti-union practices and krazy kristian homophobic ads) which LP chose to ignore when she appeared on u75.

SN RTs Michael fucking Moore (lol) and PDs LP parody, then responds to LPs claim that the u75 thread is about her cash and toilet habits
SN said:
"That's a lie Laurie. Easy to focus on the bile (whose authors we took 2 task before u turned up) and avoid the politics isn't it?"

Some more RTs on the "twitter feed full of hate."
  • Cesare's "John Major fucking a grapefruit" disasterpaint masterpiece
  • A story about harassment and burglaries of Chilean journos investigating the dictatorship
  • Action Housing UK asking the guardian to report on the cuts proposed by Derby Council
SN "trashes" identity politics by linking to a screenie of this exchangebetween LP and @judeinlondon

LP responds to SN with the somewhat bald claim that "all politics are identity politics", so SN fires back! With
SN said:
Err... no they're not #politicalnaif
and RTs LD's IWCA link.

LP goes blockhappy, even blocking SN's ex for demanding to know why SN has been slandered as a racist.

SN then has entirely civil exchanges with Billy Bragg and Owen Jones, despite Bragg being a provocative tool, assuming that SN and LD had abused LP. Owen had a chat with SN a few weeks ago at the SP do as it happens. I think that's about right, sorry if I missed anything. The rest of the feed is more regular stuff and I see no need to go through it, and I'm busy as well ffs. There's one bad tempered entry about LP on the entire feed but it's not sent at her and it's posted after she's blocked loads of people.

I'm nearly sorry to say that the "twitter feed full of hate" is a pathetic malicious fiction and Laurie has a bit more explaining to do.
 
The response to Laurie from the writer of the article:-

Slandered by the middle class PC left

On Tuesday 18th December, it was drawn to my attention that an article I'd written when I was in the Independent Working Class Association (IWCA),Multiculturalism & identity politics – the reactionary consequences and how they can be challenged (http://www.iwca.info/?p=10146), had been described on Twitter by the commentator Laurie Penny as 'racist' and 'sexist'. For those of you who haven't heard of Laurie Penny, her work can be seen here:http://www.penny-red.com/ – I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

Needless to say, I was pretty pissed off to find that something I'd sweated blood researching and writing had been dismissed in such a cavalier fashion. What really rubbed salt into the wound was that it done on Twitter with a 140 character limit which leaves no room for justifying the comment. Laurie Penny has 55,456 followers on Twitter. That's a heck of a lot of people who've been given a totally false impression that the article I wrote and the IWCA are 'racist' and 'sexist'. Both are extremely serious accusations to make against anyone and to do it so casually on Twitter beggars belief. For the record, I've no objection to people criticising something I've written if they do it in a proper article and lay out an argument that can be engaged with.

I e-mailed Laurie Penny on Tuesday 18th to let her know, politely, that given my record in political activism over the decades, I was decidedly unhappy about having an article I'd written dismissed as 'racist' and 'sexist'. In that e-mail, I also stated what our guiding principles were on working class unity and how they underpin our criticism of multiculturalism which only serves to keep our class divided. Penny replied, responding to just one part of my e-mail dealing with a comment about identity politics. In response, I sent a second e-mail in a bid to try and get the discussion onto a broader footing and away from obsessing about identity politics at the expense of anything else. To that end, I dealt with in some detail how we operated in Thurrock when we were in the IWCA, covering the street surveys, the canvassing for elections and the numerous discussions we had with working class people about their concerns and aspirations. I emphasised that this was the basis for our analysis and tactics. I also clearly stated why I wrote the piece on multiculturalism and why I still stand by it. The second e-mail was sent to Laurie Penny on Wednesday 19th. I'm writing this on Friday 21st and as yet have not received a reply from her – so any claims she makes about a 'dialogue' going on between us really should be taken with a large pinch of salt.

In the second e-mail I sent to Laurie Penny, I did say that in retrospect, there were one or two parts of the article I'd have written differently and that what I said in the introduction about identity politics could have been written with some more nuances. Since then I've heard from a trusted source that she's taken this as me admitting that some of what I wrote was wrong. No, absolutely sodding not! There's a massive difference between saying that I could have written something better and admitting that the core principle of what I wrote about multiculturalism being divisive and counter-productive was wrong. For the record, I still stand by my criticisms of multiculturalism and intend to do so until my dying day. Lesson learned for our class...never, ever trust a university educated middle class lefty. Yours truly has mercifully had little to do with such people over the last few years which is great in one way but left me a tad unprepared for being selectively quoted by someone who wants to divide her opponents.

The conduct of Laurie Penny and her supporters, mostly from the middle class PC left, illustrates the contempt they hold for the working class, particularly those sections of it that organised to offer a militant challenge on the streets to fascism and then moved on to organise in their communities in a way that started to give our class a voice. Our class speaking for itself, not some bunch of university educated, patronising middle class lefties who think they have a divine right to run our lives. Of course the middle class left absolutely loathe the idea of us plebs having the sodding temerity to organise politically in our communities in such a way that they are removed from the equation. With the shite coming our way in 2013 from a tanking economy, worsening pay and conditions for those still in work, draconian measures threatened for those out of work and housing benefit changes leading to a further wave of social cleansing in London to name a few examples, our class is right up against the wall. The last thing we need is these nauseating, bleating PC middle class lefties trying to take over our struggles and battles.

Right, the bottom line is this... Laurie Penny owes the IWCA, our class and me an unreserved apology for her cavalier dismissal of my critique of multiculturalism as being 'racist' and 'sexist'. Nothing less than this is acceptable. If Laurie Penny can't bring herself to do this, then may I suggest that she and her supporters stop thinking they have right to tell us working class plebs how to run our lives and battles – just back off, shut the fuck up and leave us to it. Lastly, any further discussion about this takes place in the comments section below this piece where everyone can see what's being written and there's no selective quoting and trying to set former allies against each other.

Dave

Puts a whole different light on the 'productive' discussion that Laurie claims she had with the writer where she claimed he had admitted to being wrong on it

Can you step up now Laurie and start making some apologies, or as Dave says, 'back off, shut the fuck up and leave us to it' (actually apologise, then fuck off)

edit: Dave v Dave!
 
Laurie Penny has never claimed to speak for the working class. She just reserves the right to correct the working class when they're wrong. After all, she has the benefit of a very expensive education which gives her much greater insight into the relevant issues. Also, since the working class obviously have a much greater degree of authenticity when commenting on their own affairs, they have a distinct advantage over Laurie. They should bear this advantage in mind and check their 'privilege' when engaging in discourse with the middle class 'left'.
 
Laurie Penny has never claimed to speak for the working class. She just reserves the right to correct the working class when they're wrong. After all, she has the benefit of a very expensive education which gives her much greater insight into the relevant issues. Also, since the working class obviously have a much greater degree of authenticity when commenting on their own affairs, they have a distinct advantage over Laurie. They should bear this advantage in mind and check their 'privilege' when engaging in discourse with the middle class 'left'.

you jest, but she did pretty much say something close to this once - owen jones started some 'hashtag' (yes i know!) about 'lefty ancestors' - and she complained that it was alienating people like her who did not have any

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/229923967266349056

penny said:
that sort of thing has always made me, and a lot of people, feel left out and alienated.

and in that same exchange, this classic from the kebab bum finger, showing her firm grasp of a materialist approach to progressive politics

politics are like religion
 
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