Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[ViolentPanda]

I'm sad to see LLETSA driven out by fellow posters. Repeatedly outed until the mods had to act because his opinions didn't fit.

He outed himself this time.

 

[el-ahrairah]

Left Foot Forward, Assistant Editor







20 grand to work on a blog? Where do they get the money from?

i might apply for that. i could be a blogger for 20k a year.

 

[Badgers]

No claims of any prior work, work experience or volunteering? Guess she does not need the money but surely some life/work experience would give her some basis for writing?

So nothing written or experience drawn from? Just a wealthy upbringing and and education? Not even a Saturday job? Seems unusual, even the richest and laziest people I have encountered have done some work before settling into a trough job with a parental credit card....

 

[Captain Hurrah]

Hopefully he'll return with a name which doesn't sound like an 80s soft porn star.

He's an arse, but he's our arse.

 

[Fez909]

i might apply for that. i could be a blogger for 20k a year.

"depending on experience" means if you've not done a year working for free, then expect to either work a year for free or fuck off.

 

[Firky]

So nothing written or experience drawn from? Just a wealthy upbringing and and education? Not even a Saturday job? Seems unusual, even the richest and laziest people I have encountered have done some work before settling into a trough job with a parental credit card....

This is one of the few things she replied to, in response to butchers I think. It's over a hundred pages back so briefly:

I worked at the Morning Star ---> Journalist from the Morning Star turns up and says, "I really hope you don't call that 3 months you were with us working because you were well shit and not even interested in joining the union that we recommended".

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes, it is inappropriate.
Laurie Penny chose to legally change her name on feminist grounds away from her father's surname, and she is referred to as a generic male name because ... ...

...Dave Barnett flows better than Laura Barnett, obviously.

 

[tufty79]

So nothing written or experience drawn from? Just a wealthy upbringing and and education? Not even a Saturday job? Seems unusual, even the richest and laziest people I have encountered have done some work before settling into a trough job with a parental credit card....

..actually, my money and privilege are not such that I'm not seriously worried about the future.
I know people from university whose daddies, mummies and uncles work at big papers, who have walked in to jobs at the Times and the Independent. I was unable to afford the place I was offered on the MA in journalism offered by City University - a standard entry-point to the industry, costing 8,000 per year exclusive of living costs, with no time to work and support yourself - so I settled for a shitty little part-time NCTJ course, and that choice has seriously held me back compared to the people I know who could afford City. Booga-booga personal finger-pointing actually obscures many years of hard work, knockbacks and disappointments because I wasn't lucky enough to have a daddy who worked in the media or a massive personal fortune to draw upon.

It says a great big deal that someone with my opportunities - middle-class parents, nice school, Oxford - still isn't privileged enough to walk into a feature-writing job without years of being knocked back and getting up again, a process that, let me assure you, is very much ongoing...
And then when you do get there, if you get there, you will be dogged at every stage by people writing in comments threads telling you that you don't deserve the little bit of success you've had - because you're [[under 25/a man/a woman/oxbridge-educated/not posh enough/ugly/beautiful/white/black/Jewish/Muslim -check all that apply]]. People who haven't gone through all this, or who aren't as far along, will resent your success and will look for any and every opportunity to tear you down. Meanwhile, the people above you are holding the door to the next stage firmly shut. If you complain about this, you're bitter, or you're not hard enough to make it in journalism. So, you shut your mouth and carry on working, carry on writing, trying all the while not to give up and bow out to the people with real privilege, because whilst you're exhausted, whilst every part of you is screaming for the day off you haven't had since 2007, you don't want the bastards to win..
That's what you need to do to be a journalist these days. That's the minimum. That's the minimum, from a starting point of having an Oxford degree and some savings.

http://pennyred.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/penny-for-your-privilege.html (from 2010)

she graduated in 2007 with an english degree. started work for one in four in autumn 2008, until at least spring 2010, presumably while doing her journalism course. i'd guess that sub-edding at the morning star in 2010 would've happened once she'd finished at the 'shitty' NCTJ

 

[Firky]

This is one of the few things she replied to, in response to butchers I think. It's over a hundred pages back so briefly:

I worked at the Morning Star ---> Journalist from the Morning Star turns up and says, "I really hope you don't call that 3 months you were with us working because you were well shit and not even interested in joining the union that we recommended".

Exact words (it's really quite damning):

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...cebook-handbags.266196/page-242#post-11801981

 

[Badgers]

So bollocks then?

 

[not-bono-ever]

you know the worst thing about this thread ?

I have started to think about things again and thats not good.I was happy being cod left beforehand, now I have seen the light etc

Fuck you LP.

/goes to wash dishes with fury

 

[ViolentPanda]

your explaination is rubbish. referring to her as dave is inappropriate, unfunny and unhelpful.

You're right.

William would be better.

 

[weepiper]

the day off you haven't had since 2007

Besides all the ones spent swanning off to New York and Greece

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Exact words (it's really quite damning):

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...cebook-handbags.266196/page-242#post-11801981

45 likes

 

[sihhi]

Absurd claim, left unchallenged - people being imprisoned a week after Fortnum & Mason.

Were you part of the protests on 26 March at the March for the Alternative?

Yes. I went to Fortnum & Mason, but I got there late and there were riot police going in and the protesters were lied to and arrested. The week after that was such a low point - they were in prison, being smeared. They were just young people who set this up because they cared. I feel they were really stamped on.

People were arrested, detained in police cells, then questioned, charged and bailed on condition of not being in central London the week of the royal wedding - not imprisoned.

http://www.newstatesman.com/comedy/2011/07/vote-feel-uncut-times-doing
Helen Lewis's interview with Josie Long (Oxford, Newstead Wood School - Bromley's premier girls-only grammar school)


This was a classic Helen Lewis piece.

How on earth can lefties like football? Helen Lewis-Hasteley - 02 February 2011

It treats women shamefully and the money’s obscene. Supporting it is just embarrassing.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't believing in equality a key part of being a leftie? So how on earth does anyone square this with supporting football -- a game in which women are nothing more than baubles, gay people apparently don't exist and money is thrown about in a way that would make Gordon Gekko blush? ...

You are using your spending power to say that the misogyny, the homophobia, the rewarding of people for a fluke of genetics rather than a worthwhile contribution to society -- that's all OK. Or, at least, that you don't care enough about it to find something else to do with your Saturday afternoons. I'm afraid, too, that I don't have any truck with the argument people make that they were "brought up with football" and that it's a great tradition. You're not attending a football match in 1933, or whenever that mythical time was when footballers were horny-handed sons of toil rather than gold-Ferrari-owning ingrates. You're going now. Trust me, the modern world offers other ways for fathers to bond with their sons. And yes, you might have had a poster of Pele or Keegan or Cruyff on your wall as a teenager but you're an adult now and you're expected to justify your decisions. Even the Catholic Church -- hardly the institution with the greatest regard for free thinking -- requires its members to confirm that they want to honour the commitments made on their behalf as children. So put down the remote. Tear up your season ticket. Welcome to the modern world.

It was removed without warning from the website for being so absurd: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/helen-lewis-hasteley/2011/02/football-women-money

Helen Lewis, as news editor of the New Statesman, is an important figure in all this.

The big issue Hobsbawm needs to address is the idea that networking is unfair: that getting on is about who you know, not what you know. To the outsider, for example, the worlds of politics and journalism can seem positively incestuous. Can anyone not in the club ever join it? Doesn't networking just encourage people to give jobs to people they meet in the pub? At this point, I should declare an interest. For five years I ran regular networking events for young journalists called Schmooze and Booze (older colleagues once suggested setting up a parallel event called Whinge and Binge). It was free, open to anyone who was interested, and held in a central London pub every other month. I hoped that it was fairly egalitarian, levelling the playing field for people who didn't have the advantage of a ready-made network in the form of university papers or postgraduate journalism courses. You could come along, have a drink, and hear about the fortunes of different newspapers, the relative merits of their graduate trainee programmes, and which newsroom was looking for a junior reporter.

Nowadays, I do most of my "networking" (sorry about the scare-quotes, but it is a horrible word) through Twitter. The ecosystem there is full of fascinating niches, and you can tailor your experience to your interests: I regularly talk to feminist bloggers, video game journalists, political reporters and comedy writers. Again, it's more egalitarian: there are fewer gatekeepers between you and the people who you might want to impress, or who might want to impress you. And because you are just "words on a screen", it actually makes what you know more important. No one knows, or cares, who your parents are or what school you went to. It's about how engaging you are right now.

Note how Schmooze and Booze http://www.schmoozeandbooze.co.uk/ doesn't exist any more. Broadly things like that are less needed, the most crawling, sycophantic types who retweet the consensus of (physical or internet) publication X can be sourced and recruited into an internship via twitter itself.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/10/secret-of-networking-talking
It's an interview with Julia Hobsbawm, an important Labour progressive and CEO of Editorial Intelligence, the organisation that created The Comment Awards back in 2009 "a core part of the Editorial Intelligence events calendar". It was the Comment Awards with Harry Cole (Gudio Fawkes news editor, Oxbridge naturally) on the panel that Laurie Penny won her award:

Here is Julia Hobsbawm with David Aaronovitch at their awards.

 

[Fez909]

http://pennyred.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/penny-for-your-privilege.html (from 2010)

she graduated in 2007 with an english degree. started work for one in four in autumn 2008, until at least spring 2010, presumably while doing her journalism course. i'd guess that sub-edding at the morning star in 2010 would've happened once she'd finished at the 'shitty' NCTJ

That extract is actually really good until you get to this bit:

trying all the while not to give up and bow out to the people with real privilege

The fact that she isn't as privileged as the most privileged people in the country means that hers isn't real privlege.

 

[cesare]

Oh FFS, another ten plus pages.

Give it a rest.

You started it!

 

[stethoscope]

It says a great big deal that someone with my opportunities - middle-class parents, nice school, Oxford - stillisn't privileged enough to walk into a feature-writing job without years of being knocked back and getting up again, a process that, let me assure you, is very much ongoing...

Oh boo fucking hoo.

Graduated from Oxford in (presumably around June) 2007.
Started the Penny Red blog Sept 2007.
First article in Red Pepper - Oct 2007.
First article in Guardian - Mar 2009.
Worked for Morning Star - early 2010.
First article in New Stateman - May 2010.
First article in Indie - Nov 2011.

At some point in those 4 years she also got her NCTJ training in too.

Christ, I can't believe I've just spent 20 minutes doing that.

 

[Firky]

The more I read her writing the more I find her an utterly repulsive, vile, bellowing fuckpig. She really does come across as a horrible person.

 

[weepiper]

Oh boo fucking hoo.

Graduated from Oxford in (presumably around June) 2007.
Started the Penny Red blog Sept 2007.
First article in Red Pepper - Oct 2007.
First article in Guardian - Mar 2009.
First article in New Stateman - May 2010.
First article in Indie - Nov 2011.

At some point in those 4 years she also got her NUJT training in too.

Christ, I can't believe I've just spent 20 minutes doing that.

You're so mean steph and hateful! I don't want to play with you anymore *takes ball* *goes home*

 

[DaveCinzano]

First article in Red Pepper - Oct 2007.

 

[Badgers]

If I was a right wing journalist then she would be a gift. I would keep her in the front line and even support her writing to keep others out the spotlight. Safe in the knowledge that a child with a phone could discredit her in a a heartbeat, leaving a step back up if anyone genuine wanted to fill the dirty void left behind.....

 

[ViolentPanda]

my woes? i burnt my face at work today, it's only like a bit of sunburn though. apart from that i'm fine.

Lighting your fags with the gas torch again?

 

[Firky]

If I was a right wing journalist then she would be a gift. I would keep her in the front line and even support her writing to keep others out the spotlight. Safe in the knowledge that a child with a phone could discredit her in a a heartbeat, leaving a step back up if anyone genuine wanted to fill the dirty void left behind.....

Even if you don't have a phone. Please phone.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

David Aaronovitch?

Lustbather ‏@lustbather
@DAaronovitch Of course your arse being such a cosmopolitan and thinking arse deserve to sit on a bog cleaned gleamed to death

 

[Random]

If I was a right wing journalist then she would be a gift. I would keep her in the front line and even support her writing to keep others out the spotlight. Safe in the knowledge that a child with a phone could discredit her in a a heartbeat, leaving a step back up if anyone genuine wanted to fill the dirty void left behind.....

Yes, it's not really tinfoil hat to say the right wing journalists like superficial lefties like Penny. They like and support them because they're a left that they can recognise. And one that talks a recognisable language, because it shares a similar class background.

 

[sihhi]

If we examine this

Nowadays, I do most of my "networking" (sorry about the scare-quotes, but it is a horrible word) through Twitter. The ecosystem there is full of fascinating niches, and you can tailor your experience to your interests: I regularly talk to feminist bloggers, video game journalists, political reporters and comedy writers. Again, it's more egalitarian: there are fewer gatekeepers between you and the people who you might want to impress, or who might want to impress you. And because you are just "words on a screen", it actually makes what you know more important. No one knows, or cares, who your parents are or what school you went to. It's about how engaging you are right now.

The claim that it is egalitarian is nonsense - the structure of the industry is exactly the same- advertisers need satisfaction, a boss or editor oversees the work and the minions are underneath, the only thing different is the technology is produced in computer factories in China. It is perhaps more liberal-meritocratic, as in it allows the boss to better quicker select who is more worthy. The grounds for deciding what 'more worthy' remain the domain of the boss.

 

[Badgers]

Yes, it's not really tinfoil hat to say the right wing journalists like superficial lefties like Penny. They like and support them because they're a left that they can recognise. And one that talks a recognisable language, because it shares a similar class background.

Hanging on the old barbed wire

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

@DAaronovitch let's do lunch darling

 

[el-ahrairah]

"depending on experience" means if you've not done a year working for free, then expect to either work a year for free or fuck off.

best fuck off then i spose.