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Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

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Blagsta said:
I'm glad the internet wasn't really used much when I was 26. Imagine all the rubbish I came out with being recorded for posterity! Its bad enough that I record this rubbish in my 40s!
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Too fucking true. Then again this is her world and always was pretty much (as an adult that is).
 
I think some of her work is good, some of it isn't, and I think without a solid political standpoint underpinning her work it becomes reduced to that of a diarist, a self-appointed spokesperson for a generation. I hope that her work and writing style will mature because she could do some great pieces.

But, and it's a big but for me, simply labelling herself as an anarcho-feminist and alienating others, especially activists, does her no favours.
 
equationgirl said:
I

What I'm trying to look at is her viewpoint that anorexia is a) a capitalist disease and b) complicated by gender/sexual identity politics.
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Aren't gender/ sexual politics a product of capitalism for her too. Sexuality will melt away in the latte-supping, ciabatta-munching rainbow utopia they're working on right now in the ornately furnished anarchist cells of the upper east side. Sexuality will only appear in history books as a quirky concept from the age of the fat white male rapacious overlords. We'll all be solid and polyamorous and chewing nut cutlets.
 
I read this piece by her about her experience and thoughts about anorexia http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/mar/11/anorexia-mental-health in 2010 and although it's focus is teenage sufferers it was one of the things I read that helped me understand what a very dear friend of mine was (and to an extent)still is) going through in her later 30's.

I think her politics are shit but for that at least I'm grateful to her.
 
equationgirl said:
Yes, that's a fair point, but then is she not portraying herself as having lots of answers and opinions, as being the 'voice of a generation'?
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thing is, she quite possibly is a reasonable political voice for a largely politically apathetic generation who suddenly discovered politics and protest 2-3 years ago when they realised the Lib Dems had lied to them about tuition fees, cuts etc.

Remember this is the generation who grew up thinking that Labour were the bad guys for the Iraq war, and barely any memory at all of the Tories in power.

This is no reflection on the long term urban posters around that age, as you're obviously the exception to that.

I'm pretty sure there would also be a fair amount of stuff I wrote 5-10 years ago around the anti-globalisation movement / protests and why weren't the old left in the UK properly involved in that movement that raised similar hackles on here... (I still stand by at least some of that btw)... I can understand the sort of sentiment of someone freshly involved in a high profile global protest movement which has minimal involvement from the traditional left in getting carried away with the apparent action and success of the movement they're involved in and not understanding why other groups aren't jumping excitedly aboard their bandwagon, and jump to the conclusion that they must just be shit activists if they're not getting involved in the stuff they're doing, and / or not understanding the political differences that stop others wanting to get involved.

I guess what I'm saying really though is that she's just a kid, and maybe she should be cut a little slack as some of the animosity on this thread could well be enough to send someone over the edge if they were feeling a bit fragile already when reading it.

I'll no doubt get some shit for this post, but fuck it.
 
@free spirit : I'm 40 soon ;)

I think it would have been great if she engaged more. Some of her work is genuinely thought-provoking and it would be great to actually have an ongoing discussion with her on a number of topics.
 
free spirit said:
....

I guess what I'm saying really though is that she's just a kid, and maybe she should be cut a little slack as some of the animosity on this thread could well be enough to send someone over the edge if they were feeling a bit fragile already when reading it.

I'll no doubt get some shit for this post, but fuck it.
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I cut people all the slack in the world for being young and a bit clueless, but then we've again gone away from the actual point here. That's the critique of the class reproduction process LP represents as a typical case and that rather than moving on from youthful gobshitery as we would I suppose all hope to, it's seen as grist to the mill and parleyed into a career, and one riddled with specific issues raised in the thread.
It would actually be encouraging if I could believe that any of this criticism might get taken on board, though obv the only edge you'd want anyone going over was into the sort of self-reflection that stopped you co-opting other's genuine struggles and fabricating news because somehow your continuing career and filling those column inches matters more than any of the causes you affect to espouse.
 
equationgirl said:
@free spirit : I'm 40 soon ;)

I think it would have been great if she engaged more. Some of her work is genuinely thought-provoking and it would be great to actually have an ongoing discussion with her on a number of topics.
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I'm not that far off myself like.

which is pretty much my point - she's not the voice of my generation, she's really a different generation, although there is some cross-over. She was 10-11 when blair got elected, and wasn't even born when the miners strike was going on ffs.

edited for spelling
 
equationgirl said:
@free spirit : I'm 40 soon ;)

I think it would have been great if she engaged more. Some of her work is genuinely thought-provoking and it would be great to actually have an ongoing discussion with her on a number of topics.
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I think she's done herself no favours in the process either, as going off e.g. Freddy's post above she obviously can write about what she genuinely knows in useful and affecting ways. So more of that and some actual journalism if that's going to be your career.
 
equationgirl said:
@free spirit : I'm 40 soon ;)

I think it would have been great if she engaged more. Some of her work is genuinely thought-provoking and it would be great to actually have an ongoing discussion with her on a number of topics.
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I tried to get her to go on some of the other forums on here, but apart from glancing at a pet thread she did not bother. I imagine she feels out of her depth on here and keeps away. Mostly she seems just to write lengthy opinion pieces for the publications that she works for. I would imagine as they pay her by the hundred words or so she just keeps developing her original idea until she has achieved the target length. It is a bit like when you have to write an essay for a school assignment. I wish her well. She is just doing a job and is at risk of losing it at short notice in these modern times. If she becomes controversial as a result of this thread she will probably last longer in her job ironically.
 
free spirit said:
I'm not that far off myself like.

which is pretty much my point - she's not the voice of my generation, she's really a different generation, although there is some cross-over. She was 10-11 when blair got elected, and wasn't even born when the minors strike was going on ffs.
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If you are talking about generations and youth it might be an idea to spell the 'miner's strike' correctly. If all the minors in the country went on strike it would not make a lot of difference apart from leaving the schools empty. ;)
 
JimW said:
but then we've again gone away from the actual point here.
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yeah I get that general point, but there are also a fair amount of the posts about her that are also missing that point, and are basically just direct personal attacks against her. IMO.
 
free spirit said:
thing is, she quite possibly is a reasonable political voice for a largely politically apathetic generation who suddenly discovered politics and protest 2-3 years ago when they realised the Lib Dems had lied to them about tuition fees, cuts etc.

Remember this is the generation who grew up thinking that Labour were the bad guys for the Iraq war, and barely any memory at all of the Tories in power.
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Thing is though, she's older than me, she's older Frogwoman too and a few others, and we didn't go to the top schools she went to either, but we're aware of this. I was aware how bad the Tories were, so really she's got no excuse. Just learn your history and don't be utterly self-absorded, listen to people who lived through these things, don't be arrogant, it's not hard y'know.

free spirit said:
I guess what I'm saying really though is that she's just a kid, and maybe she should be cut a little slack as some of the animosity on this thread could well be enough to send someone over the edge if they were feeling a bit fragile already when reading it.
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Y'see I was saying that sort of stuff too, then she turned up here, called us racists and sexist trolls, igonred any attempt to engage with her as an equal participant, no matter how respectful they were, and went on to slander two people I respect as anti-racists in front of her substantial twitter audience. Only when the words "Carter-Ruck" got bandied around did she even show the slightest hint of contrition. I feel a bit less inclined to be sympathetic now for some mad reason.
 
Delroy Booth said:
then she turned up here, called us racists and sexist trolls, igonred any attempt to engage with as an equal, and slandered two people I respect as racists in front of her substantial twitter audience. I feel a bit less inclined to be sympathetic now for some mad reason.
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Ooh yeah, that too.
ETA: Which strikes me as of a piece with the self-absorption/willingness to co-opt/fabricate. And we're sort of letting her off full personal responsibility for that by pointing out that she's a victim of precisely the sort of class background that makes you a self-serving careerist with no shame.
 
free spirit said:
I'm not that far off myself like.

which is pretty much my point - she's not the voice of my generation, she's really a different generation, although there is some cross-over. She was 10-11 when blair got elected, and wasn't even born when the miners strike was going on ffs.

edited for spelling
Click to expand...
free spirit said:
I'm not that far off myself like.

which is pretty much my point - she's not the voice of my generation, she's really a different generation, although there is some cross-over. She was 10-11 when blair got elected, and wasn't even born when the miners strike was going on ffs.

edited for spelling
Click to expand...

Christ, i feel old. :mad:
 
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