Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[Mr.Bishie]

Last in!

 

[TruXta]

I had to put it to a show of hands at last night's mass meeting of the Nordic Communist League.

All three of you in the same room?

 

[cesare]

There's a difference between taking the piss and personal attacks. You said she doesn't get to complain about personal attacks anymore. I take that to mean that if someone called her an anorexic mental cunt, you'd be fine with that.

It's not nice to call her an anorexic mental cunt, TruX

 

[SpineyNorman]

I give up.

It's really very simple. As far as I'm concerned she lost the right to complain when she smeared me - there's things I won't accept being said about her because they might upset others but what she thinks or feels about it is irrelevant.

 

[TruXta]

It's not nice to call her an anorexic mental cunt, TruX

I ONLY DID IT BECAUSE SPINEY SAID IT WAS OK *runs out of the room crying and snot flying everywhere*

 

[TruXta]

It's really very simple. As far as I'm concerned she lost the right to complain when she smeared me - there's things I won't accept being said about her because they might upset others but what she thinks or feels about it is irrelevant.

I get that. I think you're wrong. Let's leave it at that eh.

 

[cesare]

thing is, she quite possibly is a reasonable political voice for a largely politically apathetic generation who suddenly discovered politics and protest 2-3 years ago when they realised the Lib Dems had lied to them about tuition fees, cuts etc.

Remember this is the generation who grew up thinking that Labour were the bad guys for the Iraq war, and barely any memory at all of the Tories in power.

This is no reflection on the long term urban posters around that age, as you're obviously the exception to that.

I'm pretty sure there would also be a fair amount of stuff I wrote 5-10 years ago around the anti-globalisation movement / protests and why weren't the old left in the UK properly involved in that movement that raised similar hackles on here... (I still stand by at least some of that btw)... I can understand the sort of sentiment of someone freshly involved in a high profile global protest movement which has minimal involvement from the traditional left in getting carried away with the apparent action and success of the movement they're involved in and not understanding why other groups aren't jumping excitedly aboard their bandwagon, and jump to the conclusion that they must just be shit activists if they're not getting involved in the stuff they're doing, and / or not understanding the political differences that stop others wanting to get involved.

I guess what I'm saying really though is that she's just a kid, and maybe she should be cut a little slack as some of the animosity on this thread could well be enough to send someone over the edge if they were feeling a bit fragile already when reading it.

I'll no doubt get some shit for this post, but fuck it.

Fucking LibDems.

 

[The39thStep]

It's really very simple. As far as I'm concerned she lost the right to complain when she smeared me - there's things I won't accept being said about her because they might upset others but what she thinks or feels about it is irrelevant.

Proletarian justice in my book

 

[SpineyNorman]

Proletarian justice in my book

Come the glorious day she's saltmine fodder.

Note for humourless @lariepenny sycophants: that's not a serious threat.

 

[love detective]

I was away from computer all day yesterday, still can't work out what she has or not admitted/apologised to yet

Am i right that below is a rough summary of how it went from my perspective (i can't work out who is saying what to who on twitter)

Me: Here's an article

LP: Ah, You're a racist

Me: Serious allegation, can you back that up?

LP: That article is racist and sexist (and banal)

Others: You're a dick, you should retract/apologise

LP: I stand by what I said

Others: You should apologise

LP: I never called anyone a racist

Others: Yes you did, you should retract/apologise

LP: I have already apologised

Others: No you haven't

LP: Well, ok, to clarify, I've no idea whether Love Detective is racist

 

[Random]

That's how I understand it.

 

[TruXta]

Looks about right to me.

 

[rekil]

"I've no idea whether Love Detective is racist (but probably isn't based on etc)" just says that there's still a reasonable chance that he is racist. It's just a slimy way of slandering LD rather than admitting she's completely wrong. It's nauseating.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I was away from computer all day yesterday, still can't work out what she has or not admitted/apologised to yet

Am i right that below is a rough summary of how it went from my perspective (i can't work out who is saying what to who on twitter)

Me: Here's an article

LP: Ah, You're a racist

Me: Serious allegation, can you back that up?

LP: That article is racist and sexist (and banal)

Others: You're a dick, you should retract/apologise

LP: I stand by what I said

Others: You should apologise

LP: I never called anyone a racist

Others: Yes you did, you should retract/apologise

LP: I have already apologised

Others: No you haven't

LP: Well, ok, to clarify, I've no idea whether Love Detective is racist

That plus a finger pointed squarely at me - apparently I was arguing in a racist way and retweeted your article in a racist way. You're off the hook but I'm racister than ever.

 

[The39thStep]

I was away from computer all day yesterday, still can't work out what she has or not admitted/apologised to yet

Am i right that below is a rough summary of how it went from my perspective (i can't work out who is saying what to who on twitter)

Me: Here's an article

LP: Ah, You're a racist

Me: Serious allegation, can you back that up?

LP: That article is racist and sexist (and banal)

Others: You're a dick, you should retract/apologise

LP: I stand by what I said

Others: You should apologise

LP: I never called anyone a racist

Others: Yes you did, you should retract/apologise

LP: I have already apologised

Others: No you haven't

LP: Well, ok, to clarify, I've no idea whether Love Detective is racist

Need a similar summary on the Spineynorman situation, could also do with some fridge magnet type illustrations

 

[BigTom]

(edit: took too long to type this, it should be in reply to LDs post)

She also said:

LP: I can see how it looked like I called Love Detective a racist but I didn't, it's just confusing because of the RT-reply system

best guess as to what the "RT-reply system" is, she's backtracking to find a way she can claim she didn't call LD racist and somehow thinks that because Spiney RTd the link she can claim she was calling Spiney racist, not LD... I think. It's very unclear. She wouldn't have seen the RT from Spiney, she'd have had the link direct in her mentions and clearly being LD who was tweeting the link. I cba to question her on this cos she hasn't replied to me in the past, though I've avoided being blocked so far.

Fucking stupid, never understand how people find it so hard to hold their hands up and apologise for making a mistake, people generally think so much better of someone when they just admit they were wrong, apologise (and don't repeat the error).

 

[love detective]

That plus a finger pointed squarely at me - apparently I was arguing in a racist way and retweeted your article in a racist way. You're off the hook but I'm racister than ever.

so i posted the article in a way that was initially racist, but now might not be racist but you retweeted it in a way that definitely was and still is racist? you didn't even say anything on the RT though, just retweeted it, how can she get what she said from that?

 

[inva]

so i posted the article in a way that was initially racist, but now might not be racist but you retweeted it in a way that definitely was and still is racist? you didn't even say anything on the RT though, just retweeted it, how can she get what she said from that?

so the iwca article is still racist and sexist as far as I know, retweeting a tweet linking to it is racist, but just tweeting the article might not be racist.

well, I found the article, and its dismissal of 'identity politics', racist and sexist

 

[love detective]

Fucking stupid, never understand how people find it so hard to hold their hands up and apologise for making a mistake, people generally think so much better of someone when they just admit they were wrong, apologise (and don't repeat the error).

Thing is though, putting aside the fact that she hasn't really apologised to any of us, her 'apology' has only came about because of 48 hours of sustained pressure and public humiliation from others on twitter telling her she's a dick along with a few of her idols clearly distancing themselves from her, it's not come from her taking some time out, reflecting on and reading about, let alone understanding, what a progressive pro working class critique of state multiculturalism actually means

 

[TruXta]

Thing is though, putting aside the fact that she hasn't really apologised to any of us, her 'apology' has only came about because of 48 hours of sustained pressure and public humiliation from others on twitter telling her she's a dick along with a few of her idols clearly distancing themselves from her, it's not come from her taking some time out, reflecting on and reading about, let alone understanding, what a progressive pro working class critique of state multiculturalism actually means

She's got deadlines man! She ain't got time for your petty squabbles. And what's a little racist accusation between friends?

 

[DaveCinzano]

so i posted the article in a way that was initially racist, but now might not be racist but you retweeted it in a way that definitely was and still is racist? you didn't even say anything on the RT though, just retweeted it, how can she get what she said from that?

What you don't get is that well-remunerated elite independent schools put a lot of work into enhancing the inferential skills of students - basically it's like a super spidey-sense. So whilst you might not realise that you are a racist, Laurie does, whether or not you speak, act or behave in a racist fashion.

A calloused-clawed thug like you probably wouldn't be able to grasp that, so let me put it in terms you might understand:

Awwight geez? You seen that X-Men film or wot? That fackin Star Trek bloke. That fackin school for 'special kids'. Knowworrimean?

 

[Delroy Booth]

Fucking stupid, never understand how people find it so hard to hold their hands up and apologise for making a mistake, people generally think so much better of someone when they just admit they were wrong, apologise (and don't repeat the error).

This x 9000

 

[SpineyNorman]

so i posted the article in a way that was initially racist, but now might not be racist but you retweeted it in a way that definitely was and still is racist? you didn't even say anything on the RT though, just retweeted it, how can she get what she said from that?

I have no idea. She's a vile piece of shit though, I know that.

 

[love detective]

Need a similar summary on the Spineynorman situation, could also do with some fridge magnet type illustrations

someone else will have to do it, i can barely work out what i've said to others on twitter and whether they can see it, let alone what they've said to me

spanky might be able to do one of his powerpoint arrow diagrams like what he did to show the genesis and progeny of the various u75 splits

 

[Fozzie Bear]

so i posted the article in a way that was initially racist, but now might not be racist but you retweeted it in a way that definitely was and still is racist? you didn't even say anything on the RT though, just retweeted it, how can she get what she said from that?

I think the critical factor is Laurie being made aware of your connections with the IWCA and BTF. So she has half apologised to you, but not Spiney.

All of which is the exact opposite of engaging with the article.

 

[cesare]

so i posted the article in a way that was initially racist, but now might not be racist but you retweeted it in a way that definitely was and still is racist? you didn't even say anything on the RT though, just retweeted it, how can she get what she said from that?

Only RACISTS would retweet something inherently RACIST.

Obv.

 

[love detective]

I have no idea. She's a vile piece of shit though, I know that.

All those twitterals will be thinking we're like old dinosaurs, still talking about something that was on twitter over 2 whole days ago now

 

[SpineyNorman]

I think the critical factor is Laurie being made aware of your connections with the IWCA and BTF. So she has half apologised to you, but not Spiney.

All of which is the exact opposite of engaging with the article.

It's got nothing to do with new information - it's all about saving face.

 

[love detective]

I think the critical factor is Laurie being made aware of your connections with the IWCA and BTF. So she has half apologised to you, but not Spiney.

All of which is the exact opposite of engaging with the article.

Yep,that's the rub - she's still engaging with this in the only way she and her type knows how to, a 'connections' basis, rather than on an understanding of the substance of things

 

[Random]

All those twitterals will be thinking we're like old dinosaurs, still talking about something that was on twitter over 2 whole days ago now

This thread is almost moving as fast as Twitter now