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A thank you to Brexiteers.

gosub said:
Inclined to leave most of this parked to see how it ages, but the bold bit....On Ukraine for example Senior MEPs standing up in European Parliament saying Europe was defenseless and need a EUro Army whilst troops from his own country (and others) had already mobilized and were carrying out training exercises in neighbouring Romania. Can't imagine the EU was that happy about what happened to Nordstream 2 either The Norweigan Polish pipeline that opened the day before wasn't down them either though.

For EU common foreign policy read either amplified German outlook or computer says no. Which is interesting w cos when the Germans got told computer says no with regards China ...they went anyway
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I was actually thinking of economics / business - defence is something I know even less about - but my gut feeling is that something EU needs to replace NATO at least in part ...
 
gentlegreen said:
Assuming I manage to relocate to France and still have a vote in any future referendum or whatever, I may have to take into account the favourability of the exchange rate - the UK accepting the euro vs the country continuing to go down the plughole and taking my pensions with it ...

As to the other thing, I liked the EU because of its moderating effects on neoliberalism and its going after tax havens and money laundering etc ...

After some very unpleasant forces took us out, I have had to accept that I care more about stable economies than the Tories - those who aren't actually self-serving crooks, appear to be morons.

Mostly it makes more sense than 27 small nations trying to deal with superpowers individually.

EDIT:-

As it happens, the UK govt has been forced to reinstate the reciprocal post-66 healthcare arrangements with both France and Spain ...
So the main difference in terms of emigrating to France as a non-EU citizen is that the UK state pension would no longer be sufficient funds so it's only fortunate people like me with a decent company pension who can now move to France - who require minimum wage ("SMIC") levels of income.
I never understood how people actually managed to live in France on £500 a month, but that was apparently the EU threshold for a single person - or 800 for a couple...
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Health wise its an S1 application that you will need. What's the SMIC v UK state pension difference?
 
TopCat said:
Or that remain supporters, many who self identified as anti capitalist all their lives prior to 2016, threw away all their politics and supported the most capitalist organisation/bloc of countries in the world.

It seems that for remainers, all that matters is their dreams of working abroad and retiring to Tuscany.
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But, the thing about any whataboutery line, is the implicit assumption of wrongness on both sides.
 
The39thStep said:
Health wise its an S1 application that you will need. What's the SMIC v UK state pension difference?
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My LG pension will only get me a Visa ahead of state pension age because of savings and because once I add my state pension I am safely over the SMIC ... and S1 means no social charges.

SMIC is currently 19,752 EU - so at 1:1.14 you would need £17,326 - without S1 that leaves you 1,263EU a month nett because of social charges.
New UK state pension is £9628 - 10,0975 EU at 1:1.14 - below tax threshold
The best French state pension - is 14,400EU gross - so a bit less than SMIC.

I actually do all my calcs at 1:1
 
gentlegreen said:
My LG pension will only get me a Visa ahead of state pension age because of savings and because once I add my state pension I am safely over the SMIC ... and S1 means no social charges.

SMIC is currently 19,752 EU - so at 1:1.14 you would need £17,326 - without S1 that leaves you 1,263EU a month nett because of social charges.
New UK state pension is £9628 - 100975 EU - below tax threshold
The best French state pension - is 14,400EU gross - so a bit less than SMIC.
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Our state pensions are rank
 
I just found this :-

To be able to extend your permission to stay, you must: currently have permission to stay as a retired person of independent means. have a minimum disposable income of £25,000 a year under your control in the UK. 9 Nov 2022
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So I would not be able to retire here from outside the UK - even with both pensions combined - and of course the ER might well work against me...
 
Actually the 1200 EU a month figure (i.e equality with minimum wage) is contentious in terms of how many people actually qualify ... and perhaps a deceptive bribe to get through the reforms - shades of "40,000 new nurses" ...

So it might be nearer the UK level for most people ...

A great shame as my LG pension is almost exactly that level and feels OK to me at my stage of life.







The French social security system - Retirement

www.cleiss.fr www.cleiss.fr

eeeeeek
 
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gentlegreen said:
I was actually thinking of economics / business - defence is something I know even less about - but my gut feeling is that something EU needs to replace NATO at least in part ...
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The EU have PESCO. However, the EU has zero responsibility for the territorial integrity of member nations because that's how Madeline Albright told Blair and Chirac it was going to be. Her famous "Three Ds". The US position was that any EU defence apparatus should have no diminution, discrimination or duplication of NATO roles.

The EU need to do some hard thinking about a post-NATO Europe because I highly doubt the organisation will survive a second Trump term.
 
EU has been doing European Eapid Reaction Force type thinking for over 20 years first outside NATO then in. As to using TRrump getting a 2nd term as a justification.. laughing when Trump told the UN EU being too dependant in Russian oil was a bad idea so I won't laugh at this one., but. I see the Luftwaffee is buying F35s
 
Perhaps someone can help me.

If Lexiteers knew that Brexit would have put Britain in an economically vulnerable position would they still have voted to leave?

Secondly, given we have left the EU and class struggle has intensified, has part of the Lexit plan already fallen into place?
 
RedRedRose said:
Perhaps someone can help me.

If Lexiteers knew that Brexit would have put Britain in an economically vulnerable position would they still have voted to leave?

Secondly, given we have left the EU and class struggle has intensified, has part of the Lexit plan already fallen into place?
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When you say 'we' do you intend that to include Northern Ireland?
 
RedRedRose said:
Perhaps someone can help me.

If Lexiteers knew that Brexit would have put Britain in an economically vulnerable position would they still have voted to leave?

Secondly, given we have left the EU and class struggle has intensified, has part of the Lexit plan already fallen into place?
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Yes. Voting out wasn't a question of money. It was partly about whether you're keen to have a vote on who governs. Over 400 million people in the EU have been disenfranchised; they don't get to vote on the primary government. Their own national governments are secondary.
 
Barbary said:
Yes. Voting out wasn't a question of money. It was partly about whether you're keen to have a vote on who governs. Over 400 million people in the EU have been disenfranchised; they don't get to vote on the primary government. Their own national governments are secondary.
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Welcome to Urban. Hob nob beans cheese, Dub fiver ...
 
RedRedRose said:
Not sure. Could anyone have predicted the shit show that has gone on there?
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The border, positioned in the sea, is a bad idea. It doesn't do anything for GFA. It favours the Republicans, who have gained a kind of unification goal, with the EU lording it over the whole of Ireland. It is no wonder the DUP are unhappy. The EU should be kicked out of Ireland.
 
Smangus said:
What's that got to do with Brexit?



What's wrong with this? Seems ok to me.
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Kicking the EU out is a Brexit agenda. Is it surprising that it isn't seen as a benefit, even for Ireland?

I'm not against independence, it goes with the territory, as far being a Brexiter is concerned. What I object to is, the whole idea of an agreement for NI was based on concern for the GFA. It has turned out not to have been that good for it. That's why I criticise the benefit it has given the Republicans. It should have treated the Unionists equally, and it hasn't.
 
Because nobody in Ireland wants a return to a hard border and the only way to not have one is a) not leaving the EU or b) a border in the sea

We can’t do a) because England and Wales voted leave, we can do b) because the people in Norn wanted to stay

Who are you to deny the democratic will of the population of Northern Ireland?
 
Barbary said:
Kicking the EU out is a Brexit agenda. Is it surprising that it isn't seen as a benefit, even for Ireland?
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Well that's for the Irish to decide really, self determination and all that. Given how things have gone and all the irreconcilable rancour Brexit has caused I'd be amazed if they considered it (Eirexit?) a benefit really. So no, not surprising.

Barbary said:
I'm not against independence, it goes with the territory, as far being a Brexiter is concerned. What I object to is, the whole idea of an agreement for NI was based on concern for the GFA. It has turned out not to have been that good for it. That's why I criticise the benefit it has given the Republicans. It should have treated the Unionists equally, and it hasn't.
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So what's your suggested alternative? A hard border? I'm sure that would go well.
 
The only people in Norn ever keen for a hard border are the DUP and they’ve been roundly trounced in the elections for it and are currently in a fight to stay relevant
 
Smangus said:
Well that's for the Irish to decide really, self determination and all that. Given how things have gone and all the irreconcilable rancour Brexit has caused I'd be amazed if they considered it (Eirexit?) a benefit really. So no, not surprising.



So what's your suggested alternative? A hard border? I'm sure that would go well.
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The Republic and NI are still two separate political regions. The political border is still on land. The EU is an artificial power. It's political, but based on commerce. To the Irish, there is no border. The EU muddies the politics, it does not simplify. If I was a Republican in NI, I'd be making as much political capital as I could. There is no way that the present setup favours the GFA.
 
Artaxerxes said:
The only people in Norn ever keen for a hard border are the DUP and they’ve been roundly trounced in the elections for it and are currently in a fight to stay relevant
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The Republicans are being given help. The EU claim the whole of Ireland. It is a good position for the Republicans to take advantage of.
 
Barbary said:
The Republic and NI are still two separate political regions. The political border is still on land. The EU is an artificial power. It's political, but based on commerce. To the Irish, there is no border. The EU muddies the politics, it does not simplify. If I was a Republican in NI, I'd be making as much political capital as I could. There is no way that the present setup favours the GFA.
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Yes that's all fine and dandy , but what's your suggested alternative to the current arrangement? A hard border? Or don't you have an alternative?
 
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