9/11 military tapes released - Pentagon lied to the 9/11 commission

[editor]

and kyser, can you show me where i said that the twin towers were demolished by explosives? I don't rule it out, but i'm not bogged down in the details.

"Details" like evidence, facts, expert analysis and research produced from credible sources, you mean, yes?

Yeah. Why "bog yourself down" with those trifling details when you can scoop up fact-free bonkers theories dreamt up by laughably unqualified conspiracy nutcases with a website (and a DVD to flog, natch)!

 

[editor]

I knew it was going to end in tears.

I don't mind robust debate. I don't mind people calling me nasty things when things get heated.

But I'm not having some anonymous poster publicly accusing me of being a football hooligan.

 

[Lock&Light]

I don't mind robust debate. I don't mind people calling me nasty things when things get heated.

But I'm not having some anonymous poster publicly accusing me of being a football hooligan.

I totally agree with you, ed.

 

[detective-boy]

But I'm not having some anonymous poster publicly accusing me of being a football hooligan.

Quite right!!! What on earth has supporting Cardiff City got to do with football ...

 

[editor]

Quite right!!! What on earth has supporting Cardiff City got to do with football ...

I suggest you take a look at the Championship league table, my man.

It may not last long, but at the moment we're champs not chumps.

 

[detective-boy]

I suggest you take a look at the Championship league table, my man.

I love the start of the season - I even see words like "Brentford" and "Northwich Victoria" adjacent to single figure digits ...

(Though, to be fair, for the last couple of seasons Brentford have kept that going until about 15 milliseconds before it actually matters!!)

 

[WouldBe]

And still you, Jazzz or Squegee have come up with an answer to my question about how you smuggle in upwards of a ton of explosives, place them accurately enough to achieve even a semi-controlled demolition AND wire them up to timers accurate enough to blow them all in the correct sequence, and all this installed while the building was occupied and blown while the building was on fire.

'Loons will argue that as jet fuel only burns at ~680C it's not hot enough to melt the steel.

Unfortunately aluminium melts at 660C so any thermite in the way will be rendered useless if the aluminium powder melts.

Even worse aluminium ignites at 400C so the jet fuel fires would set the thermite off prematurely.

As to the 'sulphur' residue found on steel in the rubble Dr knowitall makes out this has come from the thermate.

1) Thermate only contains 2% sulphur.
2) Sulphur melts at 119C
3) Sulphur ignites at 260C
4) Thermite burns at 2000C

So unless Dr clevercloggs has a damn good explanation as to how the sulphur in the thermate managed to survive 2000C without melting or igniting and managed to survive red-hot steel debris then his arguement is completely false.

Dr clevercloggs also states the towers fell at freefall speed. If so how does he explain debris overtaking the collapse point of the towers?

So not only did they have to sneak all this explosive in they also had to fit rocket motors to sections of the building to make them fall faster than freefall speed.

 

[Crispy]

The suphur would survive - it would just be in oxides etc.
But you're correct about ignition of thermite etc. in the fires. Unless they left it out on those floors and had really good aim with their planes.

 

[WouldBe]

The suphur would survive - it would just be in oxides etc.

Which are colourless gasses and wouldn't form a yellow, powdery coating on the steel.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Thing is squegee, none of us 'officialoons' has actually disagreed at any point that there are a large number of unanswered questions, and that the whole thing is more than a bit smelly.

Our point is that unlike you that doesn't equate to guilt - what it equates to is that there should be a proper investigation into what happened. What it equates to is that at the moment ALL YOU HAVE are questions - not evidence, questions. Questions that point to something dodgy - but suggestion is NOT proof, and your attitude of 'guilty until proven innocent' sucks - you wouldn't accept it if the govt repealed habeus corpus for individuals, so what suddenly makes it acceptable to do the same to people in government? Cos at the end of the day we aren't talking about some non-human 'thing' - government is made up of individual people, whom you are accusing of one of the most heinous, possibly THE most heinous crime of deception ever given the results that 9/11 had.

But you are happy to basically say that those people are guilty, that the task is to proove their innocence? No - your entire philosophical premise is fucked.

Unless of course you think that innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply.

<standing ovation>

 

[Jazzz]

Thing is squegee, none of us 'officialoons' has actually disagreed at any point that there are a large number of unanswered questions, and that the whole thing is more than a bit smelly.

Our point is that unlike you that doesn't equate to guilt - what it equates to is that there should be a proper investigation into what happened.

But that's exactly the call of the groups labelled here as 'conspiraloons' - to hold a proper investigation into what happened that day. It's the central issue, anyone who supports it I would consider on the same side, whether they agree with my preffered theories or not.

Re-Open 9-11

"We demand full disclosure and accountability through a further independent investigation" www.nineeleven.co.uk

 

[Blagsta]

Yeah maybe editor's a celt, but he acts just like the english in that nasty attitude.

*post reported for racism*

 

[Crispy]

"We demand full disclosure and accountability through a further independent investigation" www.nineeleven.co.uk

Couldn't agree more.
The thing that rankles is when people accept suspicion as proof, anecdote as evidence, charlatans as experts.

 

[kyser_soze]

But that's exactly the call of the groups labelled here as 'conspiraloons' - to hold a proper investigation into what happened that day. It's the central issue, anyone who supports it I would consider on the same side, whether they agree with my preffered theories or not.

Re-Open 9-11

"We demand full disclosure and accountability through a further independent investigation" www.nineeleven.co.uk

That's just it - it isn't. Yes you are calling for an investigation to proove what you already think.

It's the same argument as we went through on that 7/7 thread a while back - I can't remember who it was calling for an 'Independent Investigation' but when challenged with 'well, what if the findings don't agree with what you want them to find, how will you react?' was never answered, and the same applies here - unless the investigation prooved that yes, there was a massive conspiracy/cover up/controlled demolition would you be satisfied?

I mean say the result was that there were one or two NSA/CIA types who were acting completely independently of the USG, that no one else was invovled or knew anything, and all they had was a minor role in facilitating what happend (say, got the NLCs into that airbase for flight training) would you, fela and prisonplanet etc be happy, even if that was the actual truth?

I don't think so.

 

[editor]

But that's exactly the call of the groups labelled here as 'conspiraloons' - to hold a proper investigation into what happened that day.

What?!!

You - and your fellow conspiraloons - have a long, long, loooooong record of making wild, bonkers, evidence-free emphatic claims about 'what really happened' for years on end, and to pretend otherwise would be an act of quite astonishing self delusion.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

But that's exactly the call of the groups labelled here as 'conspiraloons' - to hold a proper investigation into what happened that day. It's the central issue, anyone who supports it I would consider on the same side, whether they agree with my preffered theories or not.

Re-Open 9-11

"We demand full disclosure and accountability through a further independent investigation" www.nineeleven.co.uk

The first link you posted there has "proof blue screen technology faked 2nd plane" in large letters on the first page, and the second links to "Loose Change" which has been shown to be a crock of shit.

Are you honestly expecting us to believe that wanting an independant investigation is the "central issue"?

Like Kyser says, the only conclusion that will shut those people up is one that fits with their own idiotic delusions.

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

A late interjection:

So how many people do you think would have to have been involved in 'fixing' those millions of votes without anyone else noticing?

Ask a computer hacking expert.

Someone just did!

Computer programmer Clinton Eugene Curtis testifies under oath before the U.S. House Judiciary Members in Ohio

http://alternet.org/blogs/video/40755/

 

[squeegee]

I don't mind robust debate. I don't mind people calling me nasty things when things get heated.

But I'm not having some anonymous poster publicly accusing me of being a football hooligan.

Your treatment of me over the last few months and years is all the proof I need. If you choose to take it literally (which you seem to do with EVERYTHING I, and others post) then I can't do anything about it. Trying to explain the context ( the previous post by Fela) will only lead to you accusing me of back-tracking and "moving the goalposts". Apologising is pointless since you have often just thrown that in my face.

If you want to ban me, I can't stop you, but don't try to make out it's about abuse. If you dish it out and can't take it, that makes you a hypocrite. And if the problem is that you don't like an anonymous poster attacking you, I have no problem letting you know exactly who I am in person, whether at one of your offline nights or anywhere else. Since you have already met me, you can't really suggest I'm some anonymous poster. But still you do.

But if you want to engage in honest debate, if you want to show me exactly why my views are mistaken using reason and civility (which I have yet to see evidence of in your dealings with me), then you will find me always willing to accomodate your views.

PS: You insulted me after one of my first posts here. And even when I have PMd you asking why you have been so abusive you have been rude.

Your call, naturally...

 

[The Pious Pawn]

There is no way i am reading all through this thread , But you lot are mad . I think you should all plough your energy into making a time machine thus allowing you to find out what happened .

 

[Yossarian]

It's not even that much fun taking the piss out of the conspiraloons anymore - feels too much like mocking the afflicted! Visiting some of the websites that get linked to feels like going to an Asperger's convention...

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

There is no way i am reading all through this thread , But you lot are mad . I think you should all plough your energy into making a time machine thus allowing you to find out what happened .

Errr, thanks for that

 

[editor]

But if you want to engage in honest debate, if you want to show me exactly why my views are mistaken using reason and civility

Are you going to support your allegation that I am supposedly a "football hooligan" YES/NO?

And look. I've asked very politely, despite the offensiveness of your accusation.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

It's not even that much fun taking the piss out of the conspiraloons anymore - feels too much like mocking the afflicted! Visiting some of the websites that get linked to feels like going to an Asperger's convention...

When the dyslexics start picking up the typos and gramatical errors you know you've got problems.

 

[WouldBe]

But if you want to engage in honest debate, if you want to show me exactly why my views are mistaken using reason and civility (which I have yet to see evidence of in your dealings with me), then you will find me always willing to accomodate your views.

Unfortunately time and again parts of the conspiracy have been debunked by reliable sources and just get ignored by the conspiracists.

 

[squeegee]

Are you going to support your allegation that I am supposedly a "football hooligan" YES/NO?

And look. I've asked very politely, despite the offensiveness of your accusation.

"do look in the mirror mr hooligan. yeah, now i can see why cardfiff city got the reputation as a bunch of thugs "

Can you show me where this statement says you ARE a football hooligan? And can you explain why the emoticon, which is called I believe a sarcastic emoticon, does not suggest I am being less than literal?

Like I said, context.

In the context of language, I believe your use of language is both abusive and destructive, and allowing Kyser to say that just because you're a celt, it doesn't equate to the common, thuggish attitude of anglo-saxon behaviour, required me to rebutt.

But don't pretend it's cos I've offended you that you want to ban me. Because what you've called me over the years is way worse. You have attacked my sanity in the most vitriolic way. And if you have such an aggressive, abusive attitude and then turn into a wallflower when someone calls you on it, what else are you be but a hypocrite?

Now I would like to call a truce to this childish arguing (and I acknowledge that I have given as good as I've got – I didn't start the abuse, but I'm willing to let that go in the interests of a fair debate) I would like to discuss the details of the reasonable suspicions surrounding 911.

such as:

Scolars Call For Release of 9/11 Information

Anyone care to call THESE people loons?

But hey Ed, if you want to avoid a REAL debate and ban me, you don't need a reason, right?

 

[WouldBe]

Scolars Call For Release of 9/11 Information

Anyone care to call THESE people loons?

Don't know about all the signatories but Steve 'I know the truth' Jones definately is.

 

[editor]

Can you show me where this statement says you ARE a football hooligan?

How about the bit where you call me "Mr Hooligan" you fucking idiotic, truth-denying moron?

Now are you going to back it up or not?

 

[Yossarian]

Scolars Call For Release of 9/11 Information[/URL]

Anyone care to call THESE people loons?

Maybe some of them are just gullible rather than complete loons - I reckon they're using a *very* broad definition of 'scholar' though!

 

[WouldBe]

Maybe some of them are just gullible rather than complete loons - I reckon they're using a *very* broad definition of 'scholar' though!

Even if they do get all the information released and samples tested if it shows the loons are wrong they will just scream conspiracy and claim the evidence has been doctored.

 

[Yossarian]

Any release of evidence will clearly just be another fiendish trick to try and distract those brave detective sleuths off the trail of what really happened.