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1-2-3, What are we Fighting For...

Will we ever as a species out grow war? possibly but not any time soon though. Even when the current conflict in Ukraine ends we live in a world where there are plenty of other flashpoints where poverty, desperation, nationalistic and religous idealogies not to mention good honest greed are stirred together in a toxic stew. There should be enough conflicts big and small for our great-grandchildren to be asking the same question in 2122 when it rolls round. Beyond that maybe but we have a lot of work to do sorting out economic injustice probably the biggest issue. If Germany had been as prosperous in the 30's as it is now, Adolf would have been just a deranged nut shouting away on street corners.
 
RD2003 said:
When we moved here last year, I decided to be all things to all people. I'm Woke with all the Wokies and reactionary with all the reactionaries. I both support Ukraine and sympathise with Russia depending on who I talk to, and with the eco-couple with solar panels I'm a lifelong pacifist. It's quite good. You get to be able to take offence on behalf of all and sundry, but also indulge in 'Damn society's gone crazy,' talk.
Click to expand...

Thank you for telling me who you are. I believe you.
 
RD2003 said:
When we moved here last year, I decided to be all things to all people. I'm Woke with all the Wokies and reactionary with all the reactionaries. I both support Ukraine and sympathise with Russia depending on who I talk to, and with the eco-couple with solar panels I'm a lifelong pacifist. It's quite good. You get to be able to take offence on behalf of all and sundry, but also indulge in 'Damn society's gone crazy,' talk.
Click to expand...

Sure you'll get your own show at some stage
 
MickiQ said:
Will we ever as a species out grow war? possibly but not any time soon though. Even when the current conflict in Ukraine ends we live in a world where there are plenty of other flashpoints where poverty, desperation, nationalistic and religous idealogies not to mention good honest greed are stirred together in a toxic stew. There should be enough conflicts big and small for our great-grandchildren to be asking the same question in 2122 when it rolls round. Beyond that maybe but we have a lot of work to do sorting out economic injustice probably the biggest issue. If Germany had been as prosperous in the 30's as it is now, Adolf would have been just a deranged nut shouting away on street corners.
Click to expand...

War will stop when humans cease being political animals.
 

Corruption concerns involving Ukraine are revived as the war with Russia drags on​

'Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's dismissal of senior officials is casting an inconvenient light on an issue that the Biden administration has largely ignored since the outbreak of war with Russia: Ukraine's history of rampant corruption and shaky governance.

As it presses ahead with providing tens of billions of dollars in military, economic and direct financial support aid to Ukraine and encourages its allies to do the same, the Biden administration is now once again grappling with longstanding worries about Ukraine's suitability as a recipient of massive infusions of American aid.'


www.npr.org

Corruption concerns involving Ukraine are revived as the war with Russia drags on

Since the start of the war with Russia, the Biden administration has mostly ignored Ukraine's corruption history. Questions resurfaced about its suitability as a recipient of massive infusions of aid.
www.npr.org www.npr.org
 
RD2003 said:

Corruption concerns involving Ukraine are revived as the war with Russia drags on​

'Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's dismissal of senior officials is casting an inconvenient light on an issue that the Biden administration has largely ignored since the outbreak of war with Russia: Ukraine's history of rampant corruption and shaky governance.

As it presses ahead with providing tens of billions of dollars in military, economic and direct financial support aid to Ukraine and encourages its allies to do the same, the Biden administration is now once again grappling with longstanding worries about Ukraine's suitability as a recipient of massive infusions of American aid.'


www.npr.org

Corruption concerns involving Ukraine are revived as the war with Russia drags on

Since the start of the war with Russia, the Biden administration has mostly ignored Ukraine's corruption history. Questions resurfaced about its suitability as a recipient of massive infusions of aid.
www.npr.org www.npr.org
Click to expand...
Very interesting

What do you think about it, though?
 
krtek a houby said:
Very interesting

What do you think about it, though?
Click to expand...
I thought Ukraine was clearly a very corrupt place when I was there in 1990 and 1996. It seems it still is. I suspected then that, as throughout the former USSR, widespread corruption was a permanent feature of life. As it is in most of the world.

Tackling it isn't easy for Zelensky even if he could or genuinely wanted to. Nor would it be for anybody who may replace him.
 
RD2003 said:
I thought Ukraine was clearly a very corrupt place when I was there in 1990 and 1996. It seems it still is. I suspected then that, as throughout the former USSR, widespread corruption was a permanent feature of life. As it is in most of the world.

Tackling it isn't easy for Zelensky even if he could or genuinely wanted to. Nor would it be for anybody who may replace him.
Click to expand...

Is this some shallow excuse for russia being allowed to invade a country? Putinbot.
 
Supine said:
Is this some shallow excuse for russia being allowed to invade a country? Putinbot.
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Don't be such an idiot.

Think about what you're saying. Russia being 'allowed' (who by?) to invade a country. It's the stuff of an adolescent.

The article I linked to wasn't written by me.
 
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RD2003 said:
I thought Ukraine was clearly a very corrupt place when I was there in 1990 and 1996. It seems it still is. I suspected then that, as throughout the former USSR, widespread corruption was a permanent feature of life. As it is in most of the world.

Tackling it isn't easy for Zelensky even if he could or genuinely wanted to. Nor would it be for anybody who may replace him.
Click to expand...
Russia was a very corrupt place after the end of the USSR


How would you feel if it had been invaded?
 
krtek a houby said:
Russia was a very corrupt place after the end of the USSR


How would you feel if it had been invaded?
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I know it was. I was there also, for quite a few months, on and off, in that period.

Your second sentence makes no sense. Invaded by who, when exactly, and why?
 
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hmm does the PM of Ukraine have anything else going on atm that might be hindering the fight against the corruption in the country

Russia tanks maybe
 
RD2003 said:
I know it was. I was there also, for quite a few months, on and off, in that period.

Your second sentence makes no sense. Invaded by who, when exactly, and why?
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Say a bigger, fascist leaning govt had decided to inavde Russia on the pretense of de-nazifying it.

Wouldn't it irk you?
 
Ax^ said:
hmm does the PM of Ukraine have anything else going on atm that might be hindering the fight against the corruption in the country

Russia tanks maybe
Click to expand...
Hmm indeed. Maybe read the article? It isn't at all unsympathetic to Ukraine's current plight, coming from a US mouthpiece.
 
krtek a houby said:
Say a bigger, fascist leaning govt had decided to inavde Russia on the pretense of de-nazifying it.

Wouldn't it irk you?
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I know you've got a bit of a bee in your bonnet about me for some reason (not sure anybody has ever officially 'followed' me on here before), but try sticking to reality.
 
RD2003 said:
Hmm indeed. Maybe read the article? It isn't at all unsympathetic to Ukraine's current plight, coming from a US mouthpiece.
Click to expand...


Bit at the end from Rep.Crow stands out

"There is no war in the history of the world that is immune from corruption and people trying to take advantage of it," Crow said. "If there are concerns raised, we will address them.

Igor Novikov, a Kyiv-based former adviser to Zelenskyy, called many of Spartz's claims a mix of "hearsay and urban legends and myths." Allegations against Yermak in particular have circulated for years going back to his interactions with Trump allies who sought derogatory information against Biden's son Hunter.

Given that we're in a state of war, we need to give President Zelenskyy and his team the benefit of the doubt," Novikov said. "Until we win this war, we have to trust the president who stayed and fought with the people.
Click to expand...
 
Ax^ said:
Bit from Rep.Crow stands out
Click to expand...
It does, doesn't it? But the article does highlight the corruption in Ukraine prior to the war, and the failure of those in power to tackle it. Personally, I doubt that they can, being enmeshed in it themselves. It isn't just Ukraine; most countries in the world are inherently corrupt. In a country like the UK, where, as we know, corruption isn't completely unknown, we can lose sight of the fact that for the majority of the world it's simply part of life.
 
Humberto said:
There's corruption in Ukraine. Wow ok. What are we fighting for?
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It's only in this thread, started with not entirely serious intent, because I couldn't find anywhere else where it might belong, being banned from the main one.

But in simply looking for an argument, you're completely ignoring the content and gist of the article. (And yes, we know that countires invading other countries is bad and shouldn't be allowed.)
 
RD2003 said:
It does, doesn't it? But the article does highlight the corruption in Ukraine prior to the war, and the failure of those in power to tackle it. Personally, I doubt that they can, being enmeshed in it themselves. It isn't just Ukraine; most countries in the world are inherently corrupt. In a country like the UK, where, as we know, corruption isn't completely unknown, we can lose sight of the fact that for the majority of the world it's simply part of life.
Click to expand...



fair points so why bring up the article about corruption in Ukraine on a thread about what are we fighting for
 
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