The war and "the left" - what do "we" do?

[Wilf]

I'm not sure putting forward a different point of view is in itself disruptive. On that basis, members of Angry Workers, the ACG, many of the Euro anarchists would be considered to be 'disruptive options' . Behaviour may be disruptive but not views. Surely it's well chaired and potential nutters identified and marked it would be far more interesting and informative to have questions/debates etc. rather than just the line read out to those that just want to nod heads?

You make it sound so easy!

 

[LDC]

I'm not sure putting forward a different point of view is in itself disruptive. On that basis, members of Angry Workers, the ACG, many of the Euro anarchists would be considered to be 'disruptive options' . Behaviour may be disruptive but not views. Surely it's well chaired and potential nutters identified and marked it would be far more interesting and informative to have questions/debates etc. rather than just the line read out to those that just want to nod heads?

No of course it isn't and I'll all for robust arguments and disagreements and I wasn't suggesting that was disruption at all, I was meaning not actually allowing the speakers to talk or the meeting go ahead or continue through behaviour. Sometimes they don't mean to even stop the meeting but the way they act effectively does fuck it up totally.

Ideally yes, but have you been to a meeting where people will not listen to a facilitator or chair and have the plan to stop it happening? Short of physical removal (which often ends the meeting, especially if it's more than one person) it's very hard to stop people fucking things up if they really want to. Or are so fucking ideological and used behaving like arseholes with no consequences they just can't help themselves.

 

[LDC]

I'd not be surprised at all if the meeting gets derailed, though on the other hand discussion went on fairly reasonably at St Imier which had a sizeable NWBTCW contingent.

Yeah, they're least likely to be a problem of course, although I have come across the odd older middle aged man of that ilk that is a fucking nightmare in meetings.

 

[Wilf]

It's not likely, but I wouldn't 100% rule out there being a couple of people there 'just asking questions' about Brand. That's not a dig at the Bookfair, just thinking about the way conspiracists spread through 'the left'.

I'm not, by the way, suggesting that any serious NWBTCW types would have any truck with him.

 

[LDC]

It's not likely, but I wouldn't 100% rule out there being a couple of people there 'just asking questions' about Brand. That's not a dig at the Bookfair, just thinking about the way conspiracists spread through 'the left'.

I'm not, by the way, suggesting that any serious NWBTCW types would have any truck with him.

Yeah, I did wonder if the Brand stuff might make an showing somehow at the Bookfair too. Not connected to Ukraine though!

 

[Wilf]

Yeah, I did wonder if the Brand stuff might make an showing somehow at the Bookfair too. Not connected to Ukraine though!

No, indeed, it was just the mention of conspiracists and disruptive elements. It inevitably set me thinking in that direction.

 

[The39thStep]

No of course it isn't and I'll all for robust arguments and disagreements and I wasn't suggesting that was disruption at all, I was meaning not actually allowing the speakers to talk or the meeting go ahead or continue through behaviour. Sometimes they don't mean to even stop the meeting but the way they act effectively does fuck it up totally.

Ideally yes, but have you been to a meeting where people will not listen to a facilitator or chair and have the plan to stop it happening? Short of physical removal (which often ends the meeting, especially if it's more than one person) it's very hard to stop people fucking things up if they really want to. Or are so fucking ideological and used behaving like arseholes with no consequences they just can't help themselves.

I think most people who have been around on the left will have experienced that tbh. You might need to bring your blackjack .

 

[LDC]

I think most people who have been around on the left will have experienced that tbh. You might need to bring your blackjack .

I'll just tut and roll my eyes loudly.

 

[The39thStep]

Again raises more questions than answers however this does stimulate the old grey matter

Germany at War | The Brooklyn Rail

The days when anti-war agitation by radicals like Rosa Luxemburg, Karl Liebknecht, or, for that matter, Lenin resonated with millions of workers tired of being cannon fodder for their rulers are clearly long gone, and so is the period of turmoil around 1968, when rebellious GIs subverted...

brooklynrail.org

 

[phildwyer]

Again raises more questions than answers however this does stimulate the old grey matter

Germany at War | The Brooklyn Rail

The days when anti-war agitation by radicals like Rosa Luxemburg, Karl Liebknecht, or, for that matter, Lenin resonated with millions of workers tired of being cannon fodder for their rulers are clearly long gone, and so is the period of turmoil around 1968, when rebellious GIs subverted...

brooklynrail.org

The Germans both East and West were subjected to an unprecedented blitz of Mind Control by their conquerors after WW2, and they national psyche has never recovered. If NATO wants to send them into battle, they'll rush into the fray like lemmings.

 

[CNT36]

Slow down Phil it's Sunday.

 

[Dogsauce]

I love it when people whose opinions are formed from shitty right-wing content fed to them via YouTube algorithms lecture others on ‘mind control’.

 

[Dystopiary]

On that note, Solidarity Collectives also posted this, a short video from Dmitry Petrov, filmed shortly before his death:

There's now a website up dedicated to the late anarchist writer Dmitry Petrov, member of Combat Organization of Anarcho-Communists (BOAK). It's in English, Russian or Ukrainian.

And Active Distribution have available a biography in booklet form containing some of his writings.

In memory of the anarchist Dmitry Petrov - In memory of Dmitry Petrov

 

[hitmouse]

Memorials for a British anarchist volunteer who was killed in November:

In memory of Marcy - Solidarity Collectives

We want to tell you about our comrade, Marsy, who was killed in action on 11 November, near Avdiivka. (The family has asked for no media coverage, so we will not disclose his real name) Marsy came to Ukraine in March 2022, shortly after the beginning of the full-scale invasion, and he joined the...

www.solidaritycollectives.org

Remembering Joy

A space to come together and share memories

rememberingjoy2023.wordpress.com

 

[Dystopiary]

Belarusian anarchists of Pramen call for solidarity with those resisting imperialism in Ukraine as the second anniversary of the full invasion approaches:

We do not expect the war in Ukraine to end in 2024. And even in the event of a truce between the Ukrainian state and the russian empire, we know that the war in the region will continue for a long time. The machine of imperial militarism that has been started will not be stopped anytime soon.

In this atmosphere, we believe it is critical to continue to support our comrades in Ukraine who are resisting russian imperialism with weapons or volunteer work. We call on all anarchists who consider the collapse of empires an important factor in the revolutionary struggle to join the February 24 demonstrations in your region and express group solidarity not only with anarchists, but all those who have taken up arms to fight for freedom and equality against the Kremlin dictatorship. To express solidarity not with the Ukrainian state, but with the peoples of Ukraine who have shown in deed what resistance means. And can there be a better flag for such solidarity than the black flag?

The article is available in English, Belarusian, Russian and Polish.

Заклік да ўдзелу анархістаў у акцыях 24 лютага (by/ru/pl/en) - Прамень

 

[phildwyer]

This is the Grauniad's way of tactfully breaking the news to its innocent readers that Russia has won the war. It translates into human as: "even you gullible twerps can't be fooled any more:"

Barely 10% of Europeans believe Ukraine can still defeat Russia, finds poll

Exclusive: Shift in sentiment requires EU politicians to focus on defining an acceptable peace, say authors

www.theguardian.com

 

[Jeremiah18.17]

UK crowdfunder for International Labour Network of Solidarity and Struggles appeal to help Ukrainian miners union buy equipment for drilling bore holes after destruction of dam: https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/ukraine-water-appeal