Why the lib-dems are shit
- Thread starter butchersapron
- Start date
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Voters vote for a party that is certainly true if that is your point? but the party usually has as its figurehead a single politician who will go on to wield power. They are critical to the style and substance of the resulting government.
For example, it was clear a vote for Blair or for that matter Thatcher would result in a government dominated by their personalities and ideologies.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
And yet...people still didn't get to vote for them. Do you detect a significant groundswell of anti-miliband feeling? If so, strong enough to stop anti-tories voting labour? Of course not.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You don't vote for the prime minister.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
You have made that point.
But in general elections, I do...
You can't though, it's impossible
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No, you don't. And i've repeated my point because you started that post off recognising this but then slipped into thinking that you do. When you don't.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
if you vote based on what you think of the party leader, you'll be a bit gutted on the theoretical idea that he's knifed out of office 3 months after the GE. Forced out by a scandal or something. Heart attack. Whatever.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Voting locally you vote for a candidate, but it is quite clear that your vote may or may not, depending on your constituency, lead to the election of a Prime Minister with whom you may or may not agree.
Therefore I pay particular attention to who the PM may be, as a result of my vote. At least I did till I moved here where my vote is not worth so much.
In a general election I consider that I am voting for a team with a leader and that if they are elected, the leader will be PM and will have great powers over how the next term of government will shape up.
I don't think that is too hard of a concept to grasp.
Sure..
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Consider what you like. You're not voting for the prime minister. Your vote doesn't effect who becomes prime minister. At all.
andysays
Love and solidarity
While this is literally true, most (all?) people vote knowing who is the leader of the party they're voting for, and for many this is a significant factor, though of course not the only or even primary one.
So people's perceptions of the various party leaders are significant, and although the polling on popularity of leaders is indicative of something, I'm not sure it's always as accurate or significant as the question of which party people will vote for.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I think you're in danger of overstating your case here...
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Well, maybe you can answer the question that weltweit wouldn't - Do you detect a significant groundswell of anti-miliband feeling? If so, strong enough to stop anti-tories voting labour?
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Don't be silly. If I had decided I wanted Cameron as my PM and voted for him locally, a tory might have been elected here which would have counted towards a Cameron win.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Tell me then, how was this you voting on who becomes prime minister?
if you voted for Cameron locally then yes, a tory (Cameron in fact) could potentially have been elected as your MP.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Bloody hell, there's some right old bollocksbeing talked here.
Labour blew it in 92, despite holding a perfectly genuine lead in the polls the whole time. But their economic plans were widely disliked and the vote started slipping away. Come the day itself and Kinnock was too unconvincing, so they didn't vote for him (polls had already indicated his support was shallow).
Next year will be a repeat, many people wanting to vote Labour, but thinking that,at the end of the day, Miliband is just too weird and crap.
Labour blew it in 92, despite holding a perfectly genuine lead in the polls the whole time. But their economic plans were widely disliked and the vote started slipping away. Come the day itself and Kinnock was too unconvincing, so they didn't vote for him (polls had already indicated his support was shallow).
Next year will be a repeat, many people wanting to vote Labour, but thinking that,at the end of the day, Miliband is just too weird and crap.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I think I have been pretty clear. I usually vote for the party which will give me the prime minister and government I think will be best. Barring local issues which may take precedent.
I doubt I am alone in this view.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
do you mean 'best' or 'least bad'?
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Well, indeed. That is a good point.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You've been utterly clear that you think your vote does something that it doesn't, yes. And that by applying this mistake/misreading to current conditions you're coming up with an odd map of todays electoral realities.
andysays
Love and solidarity
No, not in the slightest
you mean, people voted based on their manifesto rather than the sheffield victory rally? I agree.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Well, this is where weltweit came in.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I'd be thinking that despite people thinking he's weird and crap, the collapse of the LD vote and dislike towards this current shambles will get labour in anyway. Sadly looking forward to seeing him in the leaders debates. I forsee very little agreeing with nick this time round
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Sheffield definitely didn't help. Being cocksure and triumphalist never goes down well. Odds on that'll be the only thing Miliband has learned tho.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I'm certainly not arguing in support of his notion of how the electoral system works
weltweit
Well-Known Member
If I want Ed Milliband as our next PM, I would need to do my bit to try and get a Labour politician elected in my own constituency which would then count towards Ed's victory.
What is odd about that?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
if you want ed miliband as our next pm you need your head examined.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Maybe you just have an odd way of expressing yourself, but do you really see it as wanting Miliband for PM (because you think he personally would make a good PM, regardless of what party he leads or what policies he/they advocate), or is this some sort of shorthand for wanting Labour to form the next govt?
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I think the PM is critical to the character of government we then get. They have massive power even over the parties they represent to shape the style, policies and ministers of government.
I think come election time a lot of people think like me, for example they will think ... come 2015, do we want more of the same i.e. Cameron Osbourne and his lot and what they have brought us thus far, or do we want Ed Milliband, Balls et al and what they may bring..
I know some micro manage their local vote depending on local circs but a lot still vote for the party or leader in whom they have greatest trust, or smallest mistrust.
I was just using Ed Milliband as an example, I do think he is a handicap for Labour, he is a little unconvincing as a political leader, a tad geeky, and I am unsure how he would perform if he were elected PM.
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