Why the Green Party is shit

[SpineyNorman]

LOL

I have to admit I'm genuinely considering voting for the Greens. They come across as a true Socialist party and have filled the void on the left once occupied by Labour. I'm all for re-nationalisation of the rail industry, keeping the NHS away from private hands, having a living wage and rights for the LGBT community. I also like Caroline Lucas as a politician. They may just get my vote.

 

[killer b]

a mug's viewpoint. it's 'the lefts' fault that I campaigned for a nest of vicious scum, and am about to do the same for another.

 

[butchersapron]

an alternative viewpoint being that they're left of centre voters in search of a party to represent them, but unfortunately the left in this country are incapable of actually getting it together to give them a credible option to vote for.

The Greeks get Syriza mopping up all the anti-austerity votes, we get a bunch of holier than thou lefties who'd prefer to snipe at them all perpetually for not being as ideologically perfect as them, than actually do something positive with the fact that there were a significant block of left of centre votes up for grabs after the lib dems went into coalition and lost them.

The result apparently now being rightly or wrongly that many of those votes are going to end up coalescing around the greens, or labour.

The lib-dems who went green were never going anywhere but labour or green. Nothing any one did would change that.

 

[free spirit]

a mug's viewpoint. it's 'the lefts' fault that I campaigned for a nest of vicious scum, and am about to do the same for another.

It's the left's fault that they haven't got it together to mount any sort of serious electoral challenge at this coming election.

If they can't mount a serious challenge at this election after 5 years of austerity, and a 7 year economic depression, with only neoliberalism and slightly differing levels of austerity on offer from the 3 main parties then they probably never will unfortunately.

 

[SpineyNorman]

So the greens are basically the Continuity Lib Dems now then?

 

[free spirit]

The lib-dems who went green were never going anywhere but labour or green. Nothing any one did would change that.

so if a Syriza type coalition had got it together to mount a serious electoral challenge against these austerity policies, NHS privatisation etc you don't think they'd have gained significant support?

 

[butchersapron]

It's the left's fault that they haven't got it together to mount any sort of serious electoral challenge at this coming election.

If they can't mount a serious challenge at this election after 5 years of austerity, and a 7 year economic depression, with only neoliberalism and slightly differing levels of austerity on offer from the 3 main parties then they probably never will unfortunately.

Why didn't you and your bloc of left-leaning self-starters do it? Because it's a rhetorical fantasy designed to cover your back and point fingers for your own action/inaction.

 

[killer b]

So the greens are basically the Continuity Lib Dems now then?

yep.

 

[butchersapron]

so if a Syriza type coalition had got it together to mount a serious electoral challenge against these austerity policies, NHS privatisation etc you don't think they'd have gained significant support?

Not from the lib-dems who voted lib-dem in 2010 - no. Have a look where their support has gone over the last 4 years .It hasn't gone leftward.

 

[free spirit]

Why didn't you and your bloc of left-leaning self-starters do it? Because it's a rhetorical fantasy designed to cover your back and point fingers for your own action/inaction.

I don't have such a block.

 

[SpineyNorman]

How long until I get to start the 'green party polls: how low can they go?' Thread?

 

[butchersapron]

So the greens are basically the Continuity Lib Dems now then?

No, just the purple loon element of it.

 

[free spirit]

Not from the lib-dems who voted lib-dem in 2010 - no. Have a look where their support has gone over the last 4 years .It hasn't gone leftward.

it can't go leftward there is no credible leftward alternative outside possibly of the greens (and labour as I guess they're now slightly to the left of the lib dems)

 

[butchersapron]

I don't have such a block.

So stop talking as if you have, as if you have something that you're representing, as if you're talking for a market now missed.

 

[butchersapron]

it can't go leftward there is no credible leftward alternative outside possibly of the greens (and labour as I guess they're now slightly to the left of the lib dems)

So, as i said, you lot were only ever going green or labour - which you then questioned. And whined about.

 

[killer b]

 

[free spirit]

So stop talking as if you have, as if you have something that you're representing, as if you're talking for a market now missed.

It's not my block, but you'd be completely wrong to deny that this mass of voters exist. Why do you think they ended up voting lib dem in the first place, then abandoning them rapidly as soon as they started on with these austerity policies in coalition?

61% of 2010 lib dem voters disapprove of the government. 34% intend to vote labour, 12% Green, 3% SNP / PCY, so that's 49% of them moving leftwards (to the only credible leftish alternatives on the table), and 16% don't know. vs 13% and 14% moving to tory / UKIP.

eta from you gov

 

[killer b]

Deranged. Voting labour is moving leftwards? WTF?

 

[free spirit]

So, as i said, you lot were only ever going green or labour - which you then questioned. And whined about.

what other credible alternative is there?

 

[butchersapron]

It's not my block, but you'd be completely wrong to deny that this mass of voters exist. Why do you think they ended up voting lib dem in the first place, then abandoning them rapidly as soon as they started on with these austerity policies in coalition?

61% of 2010 lib dem voters disapprove of the government. 34% intend to vote labour, 12% Green, 3% SNP / PCY, so that's 49% of them moving leftwards (to the only credible leftish alternatives on the table), and 16% don't know. vs 13% and 14% moving to tory / UKIP.

So, if they have gone left show me. I told you where they had to go - and you denied this was a left move. Hpw many ways do you want it? Is there no blame that lib-dems will ever accept for anything ever? I had to vote neo-liberal in 2010 because an ideal world wasn't on the ballot paper. Whines.

Note the 51% not moving in your leftward mind.

No, this left-wing lib-dem mass doesn't exist. It never existed. Lib-dem voters looking to clean themselves up like to think that it does/did.

 

[butchersapron]

Deranged. Voting labour is moving leftwards? WTF?

After he just argued that voting labour is not moving leftward as well.

 

[butchersapron]

what other credible alternative is there?

Irrelevant. I said that you soppy lot were only ever going labour or green. You disagreed then said you were only ever going labour or green. Then blamed everyone else.

 

[free spirit]

Deranged. Voting labour is moving leftwards? WTF?

case in point here.

are they moving to labour because they're now to the left of the lib dems or to the right of the lib dems?

I can't prove that a significant proportion would move further left if such a party existed as that party doesn't exist, but to me there were at least 10-20% of the votes up for grabs, more if a decent left wing alternative had actually come out fighting against austerity and started to win the argument.

 

[free spirit]

Irrelevant. I said that you soppy lot were only ever going labour or green. You disagreed then said you were only ever going labour or green. Then blamed everyone else.

if the options are labour or green, then yes they'd end up voting labour or green.

put in a credible 3rd option though, and at the very least it stood the best chance in a generation of gaining a significant level of those votes, as well as those who mainly haven't voted at all.

 

[killer b]

I wonder why a credible party of the left hasn't happened? Do you think something or someone is needed that might unite the squabbling tribes of the left? A charismatic figurehead, perhaps?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Deranged. Voting labour is moving leftwards? WTF?

to be fair it is compared to the Libdems or Greens, now as it was in 2010 for that matter.

 

[butchersapron]

if the options are labour or green, then yes they'd end up voting labour or green.

put in a credible 3rd option though, and at the very least it stood the best chance in a generation of gaining a significant level of those votes, as well as those who mainly haven't voted at all.

You made the monstor i am.

I didn't bother looking at the lib-dem stuff pre-2010. What a catch you may be.

 

[butchersapron]

I wonder why a credible party of the left hasn't happened? Do you think something or someone is needed that might unite the squabbling tribes of the left? A charismatic figurehead, perhaps?

 

[free spirit]

The thing with that red pepper article is that it's 3 years old. The Green Party membership has apparently doubled in the last year or so, and I'd expect that most of those new members are pretty left wing or at least anti-austerity, so to my mind this ought to have changed the picture within the party from the 2011 version.

correction, the membership was up 45% in 2014 by the end of October rather than doubled.

 

[DotCommunist]

I wonder why a credible party of the left hasn't happened? Do you think something or someone is needed that might unite the squabbling tribes of the left? A charismatic figurehead, perhaps?

bear grylls