stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Lol.
Why the Green Party is shit
- Thread starter SpineyNorman
- Start date
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You're called trendy lefty and you say genuinely/true and other tics/gives. Come on
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
All sounds fine to me but is there an example of a Green Party coming to power and not turning dramatically to the right? At the end of the day the class composition of the party does matter, and Green Party membership is mostly people in upper-middle-class managerial professions. In most areas elected Greens locally argue for and pursue the same policies as the Lib Dems pre-2010, they are a 'nice' party for 'nice' people but I don't expect them to fight tooth and claw for socialism from below, above or the middle. They'll fight tooth and claw for small hummusmongers, maybe.
edit: I just got trolled didn't I
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
The party here is changing, more small business people seem to be getting involved, there always were quite a few, but they seem to dominate now, business seems to be a key feature of them now
if people want to vote for that its up to them, but for me its a step too far.
if people want to vote for that its up to them, but for me its a step too far.
Trendy Lefty
New Member
I'd agree that the Greens do appeal to a trendy :lol: middle class, left-wing student vote. I think they'll do well in student towns and cities. Look at how they've done in Brighton for instance. I think a lot of Lib Dem voters, especially students who felt betrayed over the tuition fees saga, would potentially switch to them. As a party, there's more to them though than 'tree-hugging hippies'. For instance, the Greens finished above the Lib Dems in the European Elections. I think they're a genuine alternative on the left. Not quite the UKIP of the left but they're popularity has risen.
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
They won't win next year in Brighton that's for fucking sure! I'll have a bet with you too - monies donated to server fund?
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
What?
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Trendy Lefty
New Member
For a small party such as the Greens, it would class as a big achievement to beat one of the main Westminster three (well, the Lib Dems for now).As if it's difficult to finish above the Lib Dems these days
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
On a National level it's a fucking pipe dream. Local level in Brighton was a one off.
Fancy a bet for May?
free spirit
more tea vicar?
The thing with that red pepper article is that it's 3 years old. The Green Party membership has apparently doubled in the last year or so, and I'd expect that most of those new members are pretty left wing or at least anti-austerity, so to my mind this ought to have changed the picture within the party from the 2011 version.
My previous flirtations with the green party weren't good, and Brighton had really put me off, but looking at the options now I would really be interested to hear about what the green party is like now after this influx of members, which direction they're moving the party in etc as they're looking like the most credible alternative to the neoliberalist / austerity parties in most of the country on the surface at least.
Brighton's a worrying example of them in power, but what lessons if any have they learned from it, is it still the same party as it wasin 2011, has it changed further to the right / left since etc.
Those are the sorts of questions someone like AuntiStella could help answer, and IMO they're quite important questions as there seem to be quite a lot of people on the left who're switching support to the greens, or talking about it, but once bitten twice shy and all that.
Genuine questions, I don't know the answers to them. If there is now a genuine left wing majority in the party then that would give me a bit more confidence that they would be less likely to do a lib dems / brighton if they did get anywhere (although the lib dem stuff also shows that the member's vote isn't that important when it comes to coalitions as the leader apparently thinks that gives them the right to ignore all the policies the party members had previously voted on.)
I'm pretty much lost as to who to vote for at the next election at the moment.
My previous flirtations with the green party weren't good, and Brighton had really put me off, but looking at the options now I would really be interested to hear about what the green party is like now after this influx of members, which direction they're moving the party in etc as they're looking like the most credible alternative to the neoliberalist / austerity parties in most of the country on the surface at least.
Brighton's a worrying example of them in power, but what lessons if any have they learned from it, is it still the same party as it wasin 2011, has it changed further to the right / left since etc.
Those are the sorts of questions someone like AuntiStella could help answer, and IMO they're quite important questions as there seem to be quite a lot of people on the left who're switching support to the greens, or talking about it, but once bitten twice shy and all that.
Genuine questions, I don't know the answers to them. If there is now a genuine left wing majority in the party then that would give me a bit more confidence that they would be less likely to do a lib dems / brighton if they did get anywhere (although the lib dem stuff also shows that the member's vote isn't that important when it comes to coalitions as the leader apparently thinks that gives them the right to ignore all the policies the party members had previously voted on.)
I'm pretty much lost as to who to vote for at the next election at the moment.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
How does finishing above the lib-dems in the euros mean there is more to them? Does this mean UKIP is the best?
Trendy Lefty
New Member
I think the Lib Dems will beat the Greens in May. The FPTP system works in favour of the three main parties. Until a PR system is brought in, like with the European Elections, parties like the Greens will be lucky to win a few seats. It will be the same with UKIP. However, I do think both parties will profit from the anti-establishment, protest vote which I expect to see.
Will give the bet a miss haha
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Trendy Lefty
New Member
It shows that like UKIP, they're garnering a lot of the protest vote against the main parties. But like I've said in my previous post, come the General Election with the FPTP system, they'll be lucky to win a few seats. The Euro elections don't say an awful lot tbh - just look at how the BNP have fared since they got one million votes.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
They won't win any seats- the only one they have will go.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
As nice as this would be to assume I think that it would be wrong to do so. To take one example, as treelover the party in Sheffield has been inundated with business people who are working with a lot of students who pre-2010 would have probably been Lib Dems, and we all know by now the approach of the Brighton Green council to picketlines.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
You'd probably be better starting with the stuff about Brighton but if you want to start by dealing with the fact they seem to be a but to comfortable with antisemites that's up to you.
Though imo the most damning evidence for the prosecution is the stuff about the minutes silence to attune their muesli to nature before the conference our whatever that yogurt weavery was all about
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Where did the influx come from? That's what i want to know. Busy body ex-lib-dems down here, concerned with little bits and pieces changes that help their business or property portfolio. Know they can't do it under lib-dem flag any more.
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
In Brighton it was certainly down to ex Lib Dem voters - & tactical votes to keep the Tories out. Lucas won the votes hands down - but after her scabbing antics during the GMB bin strike, & the wanker that is Kitcat, the Greens are fucked down here.
red & green
Well-Known Member
They are the new lib dems
free spirit
more tea vicar?
I don't know, I suspect you're probably right, but I'm asking the question to find the answer not because I know the answer.
If it is ex lib dems though, bare in mind they're going to be the left of centre lib dems who walked away from the lib dems in disgust at their actions in coalition.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
They will also be lib-dems who bought the lib-dems being left-wing pre-2010. So a) with a track record of being wrong and b) shifting around parties as needs dictate
Yeah a lot of their new voters will be the same divs who voted Libdem in 2010
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
UKIP are the new lib-dems. The one's that general anger is poured into into elections.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Part of the problem is the public not (in general) having a clear idea of what a party acting in their interest would look like, and hence not being able to give that party a mandate to act that way.
For example Green (and other non-Tory) councillors are often criticised for compromising on austerity budgets rather than holding out for a 'needs' budget that would force a confrontation with Westminster.
You could argue plausibly though, that councillors going that route should have been clear that that's what they'd be doing and gained a mandate for doing so and a commitment to dealing with the consequences *before* picking a fight about it.
As far as I can tell the only mandate the Greens have is to be very slightly nicer (for some Tom and Barbara Good value of 'nice') than the alternatives.
Which is fuck all use really ...
For example Green (and other non-Tory) councillors are often criticised for compromising on austerity budgets rather than holding out for a 'needs' budget that would force a confrontation with Westminster.
You could argue plausibly though, that councillors going that route should have been clear that that's what they'd be doing and gained a mandate for doing so and a commitment to dealing with the consequences *before* picking a fight about it.
As far as I can tell the only mandate the Greens have is to be very slightly nicer (for some Tom and Barbara Good value of 'nice') than the alternatives.
Which is fuck all use really ...
Last edited:
free spirit
more tea vicar?
an alternative viewpoint being that they're left of centre voters in search of a party to represent them, but unfortunately the left in this country are incapable of actually getting it together to give them a credible option to vote for.
The Greeks get Syriza mopping up all the anti-austerity votes, we get a bunch of holier than thou lefties who'd prefer to snipe at them all perpetually for not being as ideologically perfect as them, than actually do something positive with the fact that there were a significant block of left of centre votes up for grabs after the lib dems went into coalition and lost them.
The result apparently now being rightly or wrongly that many of those votes are going to end up coalescing around the greens, or labour.
I think they should vote Labour
Similar threads
