Why is Urban Pol full of racist threads?

[118118]

Nothing you've said relates to my argument in anything but the most cursorary and passing way.

Erm, , maybe because I don't actually know the reasons behind what you are saying when you suggest that Treelover is a poor politico because of his/her belief that compassion motivates her/his political convictions?

Revol: Shrug. Could dig out some Husserl, if you are that interested...
Better, why don't you, YOU SPINELESS HIPPY TWAT

 

[In Bloom]

Erm, , maybe because I don't actually know the reasons behind what you are saying when you suggest that Treelover is a poor politico because of his/her belief that compassion motivates her/his political convictions?

Well, since I didn't say anything like that, there isn't any particular reason.

 

[snadge]

In Bloom, don't be so crudely reductionist about compassion, because it is something "liberals" have co opted, doesn't mean to say it doesn't have a central role in "class struggle", "our interests" are not restricted to a wage increase, or to ourselves but rather "our interests" are made up of compassion and empathy as well, the class struggle is what gives some direction, some dynamic to this compassion.

how about a wage reduction?

 

[revol68]

In what sense, my ambigious caller?

 

[snadge]

In what sense, my ambigious caller?

Well it seems that since our borders opened to EU migrant workers, wages have gone down, to the man in the street that is important.

The trade unions can't do anything about it, the goverment won't and relax employment law all the time to make it easier to employ disposable labour, ones with no rights.

 

[Fruitloop]

Whilst pandering to the keep-em-out brigade to make sure that they can't struggle for any rights either.

 

[Jessiedog]

How can you create more equitable conditions,if you support policies that lead to poorer countries losing the workers they need most?

Evidence please.

I've already explained to you before that some coutries are entirely dependant upon remmitances from overseas workers.

We WILL keep coming you know. Your suggested policies condemn us and other workers to far worse conditions than open borders would. Open borders is a far more equitable solution.

And for the 100th fucking time - I've NEVER mentioned skilled workers, so shove it! Migration overwhelmingly benefits both the recipient country and the home country. To focus your attack on the supposed damage done to home countries by "losing workers" is missing the point. Overall, migration benefits far more people than it hurts.

So, some evidence please. Firstly that what you focus on is actually a major prblem across the world. And secondly, that any such problems that may occur are not vastly outweighed by the benefits.

Overall, migration benefits a massive number of people. The vast majority of whom were/are living in conditions that you will almost certainly never have to endure.



You are a selfish nationalist and a political opportunist who has become embroiled in competing for the affections of your "working classes" by co-opting the policies of the BNP.

Disgusting!



Woof

 

[tbaldwin]

Jessie Dog......Evidence Evidence Evidence........What shit...What evidence do you have for your Imperialist theories?
You are a selfish nationalist and racist,who wants to deny people in developing countries Health and Education.....

 

[118118]

Well, since I didn't say anything like that, there isn't any particular reason.

Politics grounded solely in "compassion" or who you "care about" are a non-starter anyway. It's all about recognising class interests.

lol, what you didn't say is probably right, anyway!

 

[revol68]

Well it seems that since our borders opened to EU migrant workers, wages have gone down, to the man in the street that is important.

The trade unions can't do anything about it, the goverment won't and relax employment law all the time to make it easier to employ disposable labour, ones with no rights.

yes, and what solution do you offer to this that supersedes struggling for immigrant rights and conditions which undermine their percarcity and hence their use as a "flexiable" ie vulnerable, pool of labour. That refuses to be drawn into reactionary idea's of "our interests" versus "theirs". In Ireland workers have been fighting to set minimun wages for all workers, regardless of background.

Therefore to me, my crude "economoic" class interest dovetails with my commitment to international compassion.

It's interesting though that many working class people will in effect give up some of their disposable income in the form of charity and appeals.

 

[In Bloom]

lol, what you didn't say is probably right, anyway!

I suspect you may have skipped over the third word in that sentence.

 

[johnboy10]

Well it seems that since our borders opened to EU migrant workers, wages have gone down, to the man in the street that is important.

do you think this is because of the evil Polish workers, or because of the evil exploitation/oppression of Europe's political-economic elite and the neo-liberal nightmare they have imposed upon us?

I.E. are you a racist or an anti-oppression/exploitation-ist?

 

[Jessiedog]

Jessie Dog......Evidence Evidence Evidence........What shit...What evidence do you have for your Imperialist theories?
You are a selfish nationalist and racist,who wants to deny people in developing countries Health and Education.....

Nope.

The best way for them to have half a chance to afford an education and half decent healthcare for their kids is to get a half decent job in the UK.

You simply want them to remain in poverty.

IF WE DIDN'T BENEFIT, WE WOULDN'T COME!

HELLO?


Care to address the situation in the Philippines that I have described on numerous occasions? The policies you support would see the country collapse. Your "losing workers" argument is a red herring and a straw man.

Please address the Philippines. Please.

Otherwise, I repeat, You are a selfish (and it would appear, ignorant,) nationalist and a political opportunist who has become embroiled in competing for the affections of your "working classes" by co-opting the policies of the BNP.

Disgusting!



Woof

 

[revol68]

His argument also falls donw in relation the US and Mexico, or does he think the President of Mexico campaigns for immigrant recognition in the US for the laugh of seeing his countries economy collapse?

Not that I think there can be any solution to poverty and uneven development through such a method of redistribution, just that under capitalism the effects of emigration are complex.

 

[118118]

I, for one, do not have a problem forcing collective interests on people


erm,

 

[Jessiedog]

I, for one, do not have a problem forcing collective interests on people


erm,

Indeed!



Woof

 

[snadge]

do you think this is because of the evil Polish workers, or because of the evil exploitation/oppression of Europe's political-economic elite and the neo-liberal nightmare they have imposed upon us?

I.E. are you a racist or an anti-oppression/exploitation-ist?

It is no fault of any migrant worker, it is the fault of employment law being biased in favour of the employer and the gradual erosion of workers rights represented by toothless unions.

In Ireland workers have been fighting to set minimun wages for all workers, regardless of background.

In Eire there is a closed shop agreement with the unions and it works, workers are paid the agreed union rate regardless of country of origin, union membership is compulsory.

with which I agree with.

 

[tbaldwin]

Nope.

The best way for them to have half a chance to afford an education and half decent healthcare for their kids is to get a half decent job in the UK.

You simply want them to remain in poverty.

IF WE DIDN'T BENEFIT, WE WOULDN'T COME!

HELLO?


Care to address the situation in the Philippines that I have described on numerous occasions? The policies you support would see the country collapse. Your "losing workers" argument is a red herring and a straw man.

Please address the Philippines. Please.

Otherwise, I repeat, You are a selfish (and it would appear, ignorant,) nationalist and a political opportunist who has become embroiled in competing for the affections of your "working classes" by co-opting the policies of the BNP.

Disgusting!



Woof

Are you filipino???????

From what i can gather from talking to lots of different nurses from the phillipines.A huge % of the most educated phillipinos go into nursing in the hope of getting into the UK and USA...It might be good for them as individuals up to a point......If you can call travelling thousands of miles to get a well paid job,good..
But for other phillipinos its not so good..If the phillipines continues to lose its most skilled workers it will obviously not develop as quickly as it would if it managed to keep them.

Your views that everything will be OK and that there will be a trickle down effect are just typical free market nonsense.......

 

[revol68]

you do realise that plenty of nurses leave the UK for work?

Would you support stopping them?

 

[snadge]

Are you filipino???????

From what i can gather from talking to lots of different nurses from the phillipines.A huge % of the most educated phillipinos go into nursing in the hope of getting into the UK and USA...It might be good for them as individuals up to a point......If you can call travelling thousands of miles to get a well paid job,good..
But for other phillipinos its not so good..If the phillipines continues to lose its most skilled workers it will obviously not develop as quickly as it would if it managed to keep them.

Your views that everything will be OK and that there will be a trickle down effect are just typical free market nonsense.......

I don't think they are saying that at all....

 

[revol68]

It is no fault of any migrant worker, it is the fault of employment law being biased in favour of the employer and the gradual erosion of workers rights represented by toothless unions.



In Eire there is a closed shop agreement with the unions and it works, workers are paid the agreed union rate regardless of country of origin, union membership is compulsory.

with which I agree with.

in certain secotrs yes this is the case, though it's not a closed shop, in the sense that the Union controls the hiring and firing, but rather that no one can be paid lower than a certain rate.

In other sectors workers are struggling to impose similar restrictions on wages and conditions. And I know of Polish workers who have been resisting higher producitivity demands on them, which would undercut all workers.

 

[johnboy10]

it is the fault of employment law being biased in favour of the employer and the gradual erosion of workers rights represented by toothless unions.

then why is your solution to stop immigration?

surely the solution is to tackle the problem - i.e. we need a change in employment law and an increased militancy of trade unions to protect workers' rights

 

[revol68]

then why is your solution to stop immigration?

surely the solution is to tackle the problem - i.e. we need a change in employment law and an increased militancy of trade unions to protect workers' rights

I don;t think snadge suggested stopping immigration.

 

[snadge]

I don;t think snadge suggested stopping immigration.

quite right, I didn't, I support immigration and no borders fully.

What I am trying to say is that without leglisation against the undercutting of previously agreed labour rates, this situation can only get worse.

accusing people of rascism is non productive, it doesn't solve the problem.

 

[snadge]

then why is your solution to stop immigration?

surely the solution is to tackle the problem - i.e. we need a change in employment law and an increased militancy of trade unions to protect workers' rights

part of the problem is admiting there is a problem in the first place, to some there is no problem and it becomes rascist to address it....

 

[TonkaToy]

you do realise that plenty of nurses leave the UK for work?

Would you support stopping them?

Is he talking about stopping nurses from leaving the Phillipines?

 

[TonkaToy]

then why is your solution to stop immigration?

surely the solution is to tackle the problem - i.e. we need a change in employment law and an increased militancy of trade unions to protect workers' rights

Trade unions do not protect workers rights. They merely bring middle class political agendas into the workplace. Unions are anti working class. Unions smash the dreams and the asperations of the working class masses.

 

[revol68]

Is he talking about stopping nurses from leaving the Phillipines?

well, stopping them coming here because he is concerned that it is wrecking the Philipine economy, so I assume that wou'd mean he is opposed to them leaving the Philipines.

We are talking about TBallbag here, yes?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I don't think they are saying that at all....

Nah, that's just balders' latest sweepigly generalised accusation that he throws at people willy-nilly, he's got "trickle-down" on the brain and thinks everyone else has too, even though it was mostly discredited as an economic theory pretty much at the same time as it's praises were being sung in the US.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Trade unions do not protect workers rights. They merely bring middle class political agendas into the workplace. Unions are anti working class. Unions smash the dreams and the asperations of the working class masses.

Yes dear, of course dear (pats Layabout on his balding little head).