Why aren't the left doing better?

[brasicritique]

Well you said it was an 'allusion' to someone I know working in banking - calling me 'Mr Banker' is not an 'allusion'.?

no its an insult as i have already told you

TBH, if 'the real left' are anything like you it's no wonder they're not getting anywhere.?

actually if the real left HAD people like me in it then they would not be in the postion that they are now in however it all went wrong when the left intellectuals turned on the likes of thompson and hall and walked away from class still you would not know about such things

It's all about the 'real' people eh brass? As defined by you,obviously. The 'real' people being whom, exactly?

i should have said genuine i used real as in keep it real real to me is as opposed to oportunistic hypocritical flip flops like you fyi i have not used the term ME and MINE like Dotcom has so i find it odd how you have not called him to account for such an odd term

 

[brasicritique]

success is immaterial, dedication to the craft is all. Nice to see the typical capitalist view of 'not making money from it, you ain an artist' how revealing

i did not link making money to success you did and your just being plankton like as usual

that's toting, tooting is a place.

tooting popular front ie you and gun you idoit

yeah, you once again project your idiocy onto others. Where have I blamed the family? In your fevered imagination, once again

its there for all to see as its you who has linked the family to education you titty

oh no it isn't, you pantomime twat

oh yes it is

your analytical tools and critical faculties are skewed by your essential dedication to smearing anyone who isn't you as m/c, eco nazi, etc etc.

which is oddly what you are currenlty doing in the main forum you mug

by your constant carping you paint yourself as the bastion of w/c heroism. If you don't recognize that there are a hell of a lot of w/c communities in the south and plenty of southern w/c leftists that is because once again you are a dumbass concerned only with your own fantasies

i have never claimed ot be a hero and i know a hell of lot more about working class communities as your use of the term 'me and mine ' on your earlier post reveals wtf are YOU nad YOURS?

the above makes about as much sense as when you accidentally tune in halfway between two radio stations and hear white noise plus two conflicting voices.

as i said you are not successefull writer so ...

work out what you want to say, and make sure you aren't putting claims I have never made into my mouth, you ranting fool.

yes as we have all seen that you have not attempted to put any words in my mouth at all and you do not look like a ranting bitter fool in th emain forum at the moment

the fact that you cannot separate the drunken exhortations to armed revolution made in bitter jest from the entirely serious things I write shows that once again you are a fucking idiot

no your posts here in context to your posts in the main forum on your middle class thread clealry show who the fool is here it is you

 

[brasicritique]

People who agree with brasic, obviously.
In which case the world has a massive scarcity of "real" people.

your still hugging facsists and have been doing so to long

 

[brasicritique]

Why not read it and find out. .

my dear fellow there i sno neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed really i would howver suggest yo urely onmore than the dailymail for an opinoin

What's one of them when it's at home, you paranoid pencil-neck?
.

there is a difference between sarcasm and paranoia as you clearly have yet to learn

It only tells you that if you're a fuckwit, brasic.
Guess that makes you a fuckwit.

theres only one uniform collecting fuckwit here and its not me

 

[Fedayn]

my dear fellow there i sno neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed really i would howver suggest yo urely onmore than the dailymail for an opinoin

 

[brasicritique]

woof woof

 

[ViolentPanda]

Accusing someone of reading/relying on the Daily Mail for an opinion is one of brasic's stock-in-trade insults, like calling people "middle class" or talking loads of unrestrained nonsense about them based on his own Bizarro-world perceptions.

Just metaphorically pat him on the head.

Everyone else seems to.

 

[Fledgling]

.

 

[Fledgling]

like calling people "middle class"

It's more penetrating than cunt or fuckwit cos it's political and has (apparently), more extensive connotations.


So there.

 

[Zeppo]

The left were not doing so brill in better economic times. Now I think there maybe a shift to the left as people see what a screw up this recession will bring.

Yes some may turn to the extreme right. The Tories are to the left now not surprisingly to a right wing New Labour. In a general election the Tories will beat NL and pick up a big economic mess.

The left will have to get away from its fixation on the Russian Revolution 1917 and Lenin. Difficult because this means ditching democratic centralism and the top down approach. Unless the left gets broader and more based with others in communities - i.e. become more attractive. It will stay a minority.

I may have this all wrong but we shall see most of the trade union higher ups saying to its members vote Labour - we do not want those nasty Tories to win. It won't be the first time they will be out of step with the majority of people.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Judging from the final session of todays Convention of The Left in Manchesterthe answer to the thread header is "because too many of them are still obsessed with their own theory, rhetoric and factionalism"

This wasnt especially the fault of organisers btw. Most of the more green or anarchist or neutral minded people thought it was bizarre or a bit of a joke from what I could tell.

 

[nino_savatte]

actually if the real left HAD people like me in it then they would not be in the postion that they are now in however it all went wrong when the left intellectuals turned on the likes of thompson and hall and walked away from class still you would not know about such things

What is the "real left"?

You need to learn how to use punctuation btw. It isn't middle class to use punctuation either, it's a common courtesy.

 

[butchersapron]

Turned on Hall - are you kidding? he was one of the prime new times architects behind the abandoment of class, absolutely key for it and consequently at least partly responsible for the later rise of a more overt anti-w/ consensus in the labour party.

 

[jenjen]

The question is, Why aren't the Left doing better?

Better at what?

Better than when?

Better than which orientation?

Better than where?

 

[brasicritique]

Accusing someone of reading/relying on the Daily Mail for an opinion is one of brasic's stock-in-trade insults, like calling people "middle class"
.

no actaully thats dotcoms i refer you to the main forum however he is your wital frwend so he can carry on harping on about the middle class and you can continue being urbans top hypocrit

or talking loads of unrestrained nonsense about them based on his own Bizarro-world perceptions.

actaully the above is what you are always doing as you think poverty welfare reform growing inequality are all just biaarro world perceptions

Just metaphorically pat him on the head.Everyone else seems to.

oooo the patronising approach personally as i have already siad your tag line says it all about you as i said before there is adifference between racsists facsists and nazis and you are claiming that it is only ONE of them you do not hug so you hug racsists and facsists


i am calling you hypocritical fuckwitws out - dotcoms used a very odd term 'Me and Mine ' seeing as he seems unable to expalin who this consists of maybe one of you wallys can stil we have already seen in the incident with Jc2 that there are rules for some on urban and rules for others

 

[brasicritique]

What is the "real left"?

You need to learn how to use punctuation btw. It isn't middle class to use punctuation either, it's a common courtesy.

your brain is punctuated rememebr your recent attempt at flaming another poster where bucther had to tell you and show us what a wally you are
nino of ninnydom now that made me laugh

 

[brasicritique]

It's more penetrating than cunt or fuckwit cos it's political and has (apparently), more extensive connotations.


So there.

well if its good enough for dotcom you should have stoped with the . fledgling hah with your inane contribution your more like sapling

 

[brasicritique]

Turned on Hall - are you kidding? he was one of the prime new times architects behind the abandoment of class, absolutely key for it and consequently at least partly responsible for the later rise of a more overt anti-w/ consensus in the labour party.

i think Hall rasised issues that needed to be raised it was the response to what he raised which generated a mass anti working class attitude as imo this attitude already exsisted i doubt that hall really expected the labour party or the wider left to use his work to the extent of labour becoming newshamebore so to blame him for anti working class consensus which emerged in the labour party is a tad overkill esp when you look at how the only people to benefit from newshamebore across the board have been middle britain

 

[brasicritique]

The left were not doing so brill in better economic times. Now I think there maybe a shift to the left as people see what a screw up this recession will bring..

no imo there will be no shift to the left you only have to look around these boards to see how devorced form wider society some posters are

Yes some may turn to the extreme right. .

Yes some and this will sadly grow for a whole range of issues not least the contempt which left/liberal middleclass view those at the bottom of society

The Tories are to the left now .

no they are working within the same neo-con corpertae world view they have not moved ot the left i would say the more liberal aspect of the party are now in charge and they are now more 'liberal' than conservative is all

not surprisingly to a right wing New Labour. In a general election the Tories will beat NL and pick up a big economic mess..

yes they will beat newshamebore however in order to pay of debt they will expand privitisation and will be able to do so as newshamebore have laid the foundations for this to happen

The left will have to get away from its fixation on the Russian Revolution 1917 and Lenin. .

in part yes and in vps case collecting uniforms form the ealry 20th century

Difficult because this means ditching democratic centralism and the top down approach. .

yes however you can see just by looking at these boards why that will never happen

Unless the left gets broader and more based with others in communities - i.e. become more attractive. It will stay a minority..

exactly and this what some posters want oh and new uniforms

I may have this all wrong but we shall see most of the trade union higher ups saying to its members vote Labour - we do not want those nasty Tories to win. It won't be the first time they will be out of step with the majority of people.

yes all i would say is that we have now got two mainstream parties who are both rightwing still this is the effect of americanisation and the worshiping of it in the westminister village has had on the uk imo

 

[brasicritique]

and anyone who doesnt is, de facto, 'middle class' - the one great criticism from bc for which there is just no reply.

yes lets overlook how your buddy dotcom has started and moaned about the middleclass in the main forum and lets ignore a class based anaylsis of power and the growing inequalitiys that exsists becasue of this which is what the majority of the left from newshamebore to pricks like you seem to be obsesed with these days

 

[brasicritique]

The question is, Why aren't the Left doing better?

Better at what?

Better than when?

Better than which orientation?

Better than where?

i think i have adressed some of those points i can also point out five or six who have not and seem to have ignored the point of the thread title however i think that what tafboy said about the convention they went to says it all really

 

[ViolentPanda]

no actaully thats dotcoms i refer you to the main forum however he is your wital frwend so he can carry on harping on about the middle class and you can continue being urbans top hypocrit

actaully the above is what you are always doing as you think poverty welfare reform growing inequality are all just biaarro world perceptions

I'll make the usual futile request that you back up your assertions, but I'm sure that (as usual) you'll run a mile from actually supporting the crap you spout with actual fact.

oooo the patronising approach personally as i have already siad your tag line says it all about you as i said before there is adifference between racsists facsists and nazis and you are claiming that it is only ONE of them you do not hug so you hug racsists and facsists

You're a cretin, and a cretin who isn't aware of my family history and so couldn't have a clue about what my tagline means to me.
And you know what, brasic? I really don't give a drip of dog piss what it means to you, because you're the idiot who thinks that it implies I hug racists and fascists. What does that say about you, eh?

i am calling you hypocritical fuckwitws out - dotcoms used a very odd term 'Me and Mine ' seeing as he seems unable to expalin who this consists of maybe one of you wallys can stil we have already seen in the incident with Jc2 that there are rules for some on urban and rules for others

You couldn't call out the fire brigade with a telephone, let alone call out anyone on Urban in a coherent manner.
Oh, and "me and mine" is an old expression which usually means "me, my family and my class". At least that's the meaning it had when Nye Bevan used it.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Perhaps the problem is this, neo-liberal capital accumulation can be analysed into two basic streams. The sort that you can actually struggle against in a workplace, and the sort that works via either primitive accumulation (say in Russia or China or much of the developing world) or by privatisation and financialisation. The traditional left stuff works ok when dealing with the former, but right now, the main issues in the UK are actually the latter, so we need new approaches.

 

[treelover]

Not clear what you mean there, BG, do you mean they ignore the basics, the NHS, housing, etc, the omission is getting almost pathological: the degradation of the Left post 68 or perhaps more so post Poll Tax has been one of ignoring the very real needs of the working class in favour of identity poliitics and of course, since 911, the new 'anti-imperialism of fools'

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Mutual incomprehension then I'm afraid ...

 

[treelover]

So, you don't agree the Left has shifted away from class based politics, which imo isn't surprising given the M/C nature now of much of it.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Sounds like you're trying to involve me in some argument you're having with someone else.

 

[nino_savatte]

your brain is punctuated rememebr your recent attempt at flaming another poster where bucther had to tell you and show us what a wally you are
nino of ninnydom now that made me laugh

Another steaming pile of shite from a poster whose lack of punctuation is only matched by his lack of brainpower.

 

[nino_savatte]

well if its good enough for dotcom you should have stoped with the . fledgling hah with your inane contribution your more like sapling

Care to tell us what this means? You can't punctuate for toffee and your spelling stinks.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Care to tell us what this means? You can't punctuate for toffee and your spelling stinks.

Just remember: You should have stoped.

I think brasic wants you to become a eugenicist birth control advocate.