Why anarchism as a method of action doesn't work.

[Athos]

I haven't been a member for about 30 years, but I 've got friends and acquaintances who stayed in, and I've never heard this bollocks argument that the SWP are a working class organisation before. Nearest I've heard is how they're an organisation for the working class, which is a mile different from what RMP3 is claiming.

And yet we always bite when he posts this crap. Mostly because he misrepresents anarchist positions so egregiously.

Promise me you'll remind me not to get sucked in, if I begin to rise to his bullshit in future!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Promise me you'll remind me not to get sucked in, if I begin to rise to his bullshit in future!

I'll do my best, but I'll probably get sucked in myself anyway!

 

[TopCat]

The way forward is concerned with Brewers yeast products comrade.

 

[october_lost]

What the fuck is with his ball-bag?!

I had enlarged the image and zoomed in, just in time for the Mrs to walk in. Have some explaining to do.

Its a saline injection into his scrotum, which is an ideal accompaniment to this thread TBF

 

[TremulousTetra]

What is the 'movement as a whole'? If it isn't a movement towards freedom, it's nothing. And coercion of comrades is anathema to that freedom. This 'democratic will of the majority' is nothing more than mob rule when it is used to trample others' freedoms. My point was that there's room for a diversity of tactics. But, sadly, some within 'the left' don't like that, because they prefer to control the whole show.



I can deny it. Anarchists place more emphasis on freedom; the SWP places more emphasis in the working class doing what it's told.

From what is a collective constituted?
From individuals, of course. At best from individuals with broadly-similar aims, at worst, from forcing people to come together behind a particular philosophy.
Anarchisms often choose to focus on the former, rather than seek imposition of the latter.

A collective for AnarchismS is formed from individuals coming together with broadly-similar aims. And for AnarchismS when the majority in that collective, ie Seattle, don't want to ie smash up and/or occupy banks etc, anarchists believe they have the right to do so regardless of the will of the majority.

 

[TremulousTetra]

So Resistance,

How do you feel about this line of argument:

Why Marxism as a method of action doesn't work.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Organization_17_November

When you look at these comrades, you can have nothing but admiration for the selfless and frankly heroic acts of these individuals. For their bravery and commitment to the cause you can do nothing but salute them.

In my opinion this kind of activity is fine, if it is part of a mass movement who can make the state think twice about taking such actions against individuals [eg those trade unionists the 1970s who were released from prison on spurious grounds when it became evident there would be mass strikes if they remained in prison.] But in the real world nobody can sustain this kind of activity. Who can afford to be constantly on the run, arrested, and imprisoned?

So while I salute these people, I also find this methodology a profligate waste of fine activists.

analogy

Couldn't agree with your more. A terrible waste. A grossly flawed method.

 

[manny-p]

Couldn't agree with your more. A terrible waste. A grossly flawed method.

You need slapped.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Mass unity under the direction of that working class organisation, the SWP.

Only a nutter would even consider this could be imposed/possible.


The idea that anyone who doesn't tow the SWP line is necessity acting in his own interests rather than that of his whole class is ridiculous.[/quote]Couldn't agree with you more. Completely and utterly ridiculous . Good job no-one has said that.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't want to sex u up.

 

[Athos]

A collective for AnarchismS is formed from individuals coming together with broadly-similar aims. And for AnarchismS when the majority in that collective, ie Seattle, don't want to ie smash up and/or occupy banks etc, anarchists believe they have the right to do so regardless of the will of the majority.

Yes. Many anarchists do not consider themselves bound by the will of others; this remains the case even when those others happen to be comrades engaged in the same struggle. Many anarchists consider that they are free to pursue the class struggle using those tactics which they believe are most likely to be successful, and in a manner consistent with a belief in freedom from oppression. This will often mean a refusal to be dictated to by others in the same movement. That makes sense on a philosophical level, and in practical terms, where a many-faceted attack can prove successful. The majority of black Americans preferred MLK Jr to Malcolm X; the majority of Indians preferred Gandhi to Subhas Chandra Bose; the majority of Irish Republicans favoured peaceful protest to the actions of the IRA. But, in each case the struggled was significantly aided by a minority which chose to pursue the same aims through different tactics. Would you have stamped out those dissenting comrades?

 

[october_lost]

A collective for AnarchismS is formed from individuals coming together with broadly-similar aims.

The problem here is that you think the SWP represents anything beyond its own numbers, when it clearly does not. Even when you make grandiose statements on behalf of workers, it still falls flat. Anarchism and anarchists, if they make any claims, its they hold true to a methodology which sees "the emancipation of the working class, as the job of the working class."

A diversity of tactics is bread and butter to anarchism, but you still failed in the OP to identify anarchists and critique them on that level.

 

[cool herc]

Anarchism ha ha, the perfect way for lazy feckers with mental health issues to feel wanted. Can't even get rid of the hopeless drunks if they wanted to, the anarchists will allow them to dribble and vomit their way into a self-defeating "election" where they can't be dismissed.

 

[Casually Red]

Be fair. Not all Anarcho-Wotsits are masked teenagers.

bourgouis dilettante fops , the scourge of the left . Have a fucking wash , get a haircut , put your bollocks away and put some fucking clothes on you waste of space cunts. Just another bunch of fucking misfits and perverts who dont fit in anywhere else seeing a space for their fuckwittery somewhere on the left. Rendering it a fucking joke .

God i hate cunts like that . For all of uncle Joes many faults at least he'd still have sorted those cunts out .

 

[JHE]

bourgouis dilettante fops , the scourge of the left . Have a fucking wash , get a haircut , put your bollocks away and put some fucking clothes on you waste of space cunts. Just another bunch of fucking misfits and perverts who dont fit in anywhere else seeing a space for their fuckwittery somewhere on the left. Rendering it a fucking joke .

God i hate cunts like that

Orwell said something similar.

...the mere words 'Socialism' and 'Communism' draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, 'Nature Cure' quack, pacifist and feminist in England...

 

[Casually Red]

Anarchism and anarchists, if they make any claims, its they hold true to a methodology which sees "the emancipation of the working class, as the job of the working class."
.

so where dpes all this veganism and laissez faire attitudes to personal hygiene come into it then / Genuine questionn . Ive anarchist freinds but im fucked if i can get an answer to this beyond " we are alternative people"

 

[Casually Red]

Orwell said something similar.

thats a brilliant quote ,cheers

 

[butchersapron]

so where dpes all this veganism and laissez faire attitudes to personal hygiene come into it then / Genuine questionn . Ive anarchist freinds but im fucked if i can get an answer to this beyond " we are alternative people"

Great stuff - you just missed dog on a string HA HA HA HA and so on. Flann lives.

Why haven't you killed anyone yet?

 

[Casually Red]

oh jesus...he wants to bore the bollocks of me again . Im not playing this time either

 

[butchersapron]

Ah for jaysus there's paple to be sorting yet.

 

[Casually Red]

nobody even asked you you dreary attention seeking string of pish

 

[Athos]

bourgouis dilettante fops , the scourge of the left . Have a fucking wash , get a haircut , put your bollocks away and put some fucking clothes on you waste of space cunts. Just another bunch of fucking misfits and perverts who dont fit in anywhere else seeing a space for their fuckwittery somewhere on the left. Rendering it a fucking joke .

God i hate cunts like that . For all of uncle Joes many faults at least he'd still have sorted those cunts out .

Don't forget to mention cider.

 

[butchersapron]

Oh god i heard abut this fillumm about al-jazieria.

 

[Casually Red]

its got nothing to do with cider and everything to do with weirdoes

 

[Athos]

so where dpes all this veganism and laissez faire attitudes to personal hygiene come into it then / Genuine questionn . Ive anarchist freinds but im fucked if i can get an answer to this beyond " we are alternative people"

Yeah. Anarchism is all about dirty vegans being alternative people. Nothing more to it.

 

[Casually Red]

i never said that for a minute . I simply asked where it comes into it, because it does in a lot of cases .

dont fucking answer then , up to yourself

 

[butchersapron]

its got nothing to do with cider and everything to do with weirdoes

Who fail to kill people.

 

[butchersapron]

i never said that for a minute . I simply asked where it comes into it, because it does in a lot of cases .

dont fucking answer then , up to yourself

You asked a screwed up question (ha ha) based on tired stereotypes yet you not only get annoyed when you get the same in return but you consistently refuse to kill anyone.

 

[Athos]

i never said that for a minute . I simply asked where it comes into it, because it does in a lot of cases .

dont fucking answer then , up to yourself

Ok. I'll answer: it comes straight from your fevered and feeble mind.

 

[Casually Red]

Ok. I'll answer: it comes straight from your fevered and feeble mind.

does it fuck . I was having this same conversation tonight with a former Red Action bod who thankfully isnt an hysterical whinger . I pointed out to him Ive been in 4 anarchist gaffs in my life . 1 in Belfast , 1 in Dublin , 2 in Berlin . All were fucking vegan . I was eating a burger outside one in Belfast and fed a bit of it to this mangy fucker of a dog tied to a lamp post . I was then harangued by this manky cunt who went bananas because his dog was apparently vegetarian . All i did was feed a hungry looking dog.

Fair play to vegans, their lifestyle choice is none of my business, but the vast majority of the working class arent vegans ..so why are anarchist champions of the working class venues vegan ? Its a fair question . But plainly a question that fucks you off ,and that other tosser . Plainly you dont want to address the issue and insult someone for having the temerity to raise it , up to you . I couldnt give a fuck .

But heres the thing . I also raised the issue tonight of me standing on a football terrace in the company of about 4000 fash over in germany. The same football team has a small left wing contingent as well . But the fact is despite their abhorrent politics I felt id more in immediate common , more personal identification with the fash than Ive had with any anarchist . Despite the fact the anarchists I know couldnt have been more freindly , comradely and welcoming . But they might as well have been from another planet .

How does this fact translate among the working class who are less politically aware ? Who are they more likely to identify with ? Its a fair question but one you are obvuiously intent on replying to with inane and banal fucking insults as opposed to addressing .

As for that other waste of space its par for the course but I asked you a genuine question .

 

[Casually Red]

You asked a screwed up question (ha ha) based on tired stereotypes yet you not only get annoyed when you get the same in return but you consistently refuse to kill anyone.

i dont know what you are on about , i dont care who the fuck you are , you dont know who the fuck i am . But you insist on spouting shit about me killing people, or not killing people , or whatever it is your projecting your cryptic ,wank the dog of a fuck all 2 bob persona about . When i have the temerity to put up a post on what is apparently your fucking territory which you are the be all and end all .

You sad dreary bitter little cunt . I can respect a man who says something straight but not a twistylittle cunt who thinks cryptic asides are clever .

spit it out and stop being such a little princess . Your boggle, Dorothy, what is it exactly ? Why has you been following me about with these frilly little asides ? Get to the point or stop muttering while knitting your little doilies .