But surely, comrade, one needs fellow-workers who will submit to the will of the people and guide the class along the path of freedom?
On the measures you set out, I would define myself as working class:
Income - After you took out what I paid to service the loans I'd taken out to go to university and law school I was poorly paid.
Social class - I am the son of two non-professionals; the first in my family to get even an A Level, never mind a degree. I come from a working class area, and was educated at the local comp. And I never had a foreign holiday until I left home!
Means of production - To pay my bils, I had to sell my labour exactly the same as I would have done if I'd gone to work on the production line at the local Vauxhall factory; I wasn't a partner or shareholder etc.
I am well paid now (relative to the national average), and that is reflected in my tastes e.g. good food etc, but that doesn't mean I'm no longer working class, does it?
Apart from rmp3 and perhaps audiotech are there nay other SWPs and fellow travllers left on the boards? Is Das Uberdog still around? Any others? Poor old rmp3 is fighting a lonely battle at the moment....
Depends who you're asking that question of, doesn't it? For me, it's a lot about attitude, too. About your politics and whether you shape them to accommodate the lifestyle you desire, or stay true to what you believe.
Unexpectedly, I found myself moving further and further to the left the older I've got! In my teens, I was apolitical; in my early 20s, I was looking forward to a Labour government; ever since, I've become more and more interested in first Marx, and then anarchism. I thought it was supposed to go the other way.
Aaaaah, so you are there. so, do you accept you were wrong to interpret socialist as Socialist worker, and interpret working with the working class the way you did?Post #316, made nearly an hour ago.
Going blind now too?
Aaaaah, so you are there. so, do you accept you were wrong to interpret socialist and Socialist worker, and interpret working with the working class the way you did?
You were.No.
Hth.
I rarely post here as well. Got fed up with VP's dogmatism and willful misrepresentations.Apart from rmp3 and perhaps audiotech are there nay other SWPs and fellow travllers left on the boards? Is Das Uberdog still around? Any others? Poor old rmp3 is fighting a lonely battle at the moment....
Define vangaurdism.Most of 'em are as fed-up with rmp3s dogmatism and willful misrepresentations as many of the anarchists on this board are.
SWPDefine vangaurdism.
Fucking hell, my dustbin man isn't working class!!!!Depends who you're asking that question of, doesn't it? For me, it's a lot about attitude, too. About your politics and whether you shape them to accommodate the lifestyle you desire, or stay true to what you believe. This is why I dislike neo-libs - they follow the money rather than their convictions.
RU VP's glove puppet?
I rarely post here as well. Got fed up with VP's dogmatism and willful misrepresentations.
Fucking hell, my dustbin man isn't working class!!!!
You were.
RU VP's glove puppet?
go on admit, you don't know. your just repeating what the big boys have told you say.
pssss, dont believe everything VP says.
Makes you wonder whether rmp3 has ever bothered to look out the founding principles of the organisation, or analyse the philosophy it was originally based on.
Where did I say that?According to RMP3, the SWP aren'tvanguardist, you know.
oh fuck off you soft get.What a snidey little sod you are. You have a pop, then you attempt to cover it with smilies.
You know what, I don't ask or require anyone to believe anything I say, I state what I believe to be true, and let others decide.
Odd how those "others" tend to see things my way rather than yours, though. I suppose that they're all my sock-puppets, then?
Where did I say that?According to RMP3, the SWP aren'tvanguardist, you know.
No! There you go again reading what hasn't been said.So you equate a menial job with being "working class", do you?
No comrade, we need a squat, 'freedom' in the heart of capitalism, that will act as a beacon to the working classES, to which they will flock, and will convert en masse to the one true belief, to achieve freedom you have to be freedom.But surely, comrade, one needs fellow-workers who will submit to the will of the people and guide the class along the path of freedom?
Where did I say that?
oh fuck off you soft get.
Where did I say that?
No! There you go again reading what hasn't been said.
No comrade, we need a squat, 'freedom' in the heart of capitalism, that will act as a beacon to the working classES, to which they will flock, and will convert en masse to the one true belief, to achieve freedom you have to be freedom.
You fucking were, and you cshould know it. Your interpretation is nonsense.No, I wasn't.
What I am, is fed-up with being required to explain myself over and over again by some dupe whose politics don't benefit the working classes.
"Packing meetings" - having plenty of members to hand to ram through resolutions that favour the SWP over other parties to alliances/compacts/whatever. It happens way too often to be incidental (which is what Swappies tend to claim if you tax them on it), and it's a manipulation of supposedly-democratic fora by a supposedly democratic (ha-fucking-ha!) organisation.