Why anarchism as a method of action doesn't work.

[TremulousTetra]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/three-held-bank-occupied-020709883.html

When you look at these comrades, you can have nothing but admiration for the selfless and frankly heroic acts of these individuals. For their bravery and commitment to the cause you can do nothing but salute them.

In my opinion this kind of activity is fine, if it is part of a mass movement who can make the state think twice about taking socks actions against individuals [ie those trade unionists the 1970s who were released from prison on spurious grounds when it became evident there would be mass strikes if they remained in prison.] But in the real world nobody can sustain this kind of activity. Who can afford to be constantly arrested, fined, and imprisoned?

So while I salute these people, I also find this methodology a profligate waste of fine activists.

 

[elfman]

Yeh I agree. I think there are a lot of people, especially when they are younger, are very impatient and want things to happen NOW. They are usually good people and have their heart in the right place but their passion and motivation needs channeling. I think they are seen by most working class people as just 'activists' that are operating in a alien sphere.

 

[Pickman's model]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/three-held-bank-occupied-020709883.html

When you look at these comrades, you can have nothing but admiration for the selfless and frankly heroic acts of these individuals. For their bravery and commitment to the cause you can do nothing but salute them.

In my opinion this kind of activity is fine, if it is part of a mass movement who can make the state think twice about taking socks actions against individuals [ie those trade unionists the 1970s who were released from prison on spurious grounds when it became evident there would be mass strikes if they remained in prison.] But in the real world nobody can sustain this kind of activity. Who can afford to be constantly arrested, fined, and imprisoned?

So while I salute these people, I also find this methodology a profligate waste of fine activists.

but where does it say they were anarchists? you made that bit up, rmp3.

thread fail - again

 

[ViolentPanda]

Interesting that the OP views activists semi-instrumentally, as a resource, rather than as individuals free to determine how they act within society

 

[eoin_k]

Of course the myriad sects of the Leninist left have never been politically irrelevant glee clubs whose members burn themselves out engaging in irrelevant ineffective activism. Whereas no anarchists have ever been contributed to effective mass actions on the basis of class struggle. Fact!

One of the strengths of many 'Anarchists'* over the sort of politics you represent is their ability to apply this sort of critique to their own practice in periods when I can only imagine the likes of you indulging in self congratulatory, delusional rhetoric.

Take this text published in the wake of June the 18th, one of the high water marks of 'Anarchist' activism in recent decades:

http://www.eco-action.org/dod/no9/activism.htm

* The inverted commas are an attempt to acknowledge that a lot of class struggle Anarchists have been critical of the sort of activism you are trying to critique for a long time. Also a lot of people who think that the activist scene shouldn't be completely dismissed as irrelevant and might be worth some (critical) engagement don't necessarily think of themselves as Anarchists or use theoretical tools from an Anarchist tradition to make sense of their politics.

 

[JimW]

Shame no anarchist ever suggested any other course of action over the past century or so bar squatting the odd empty bank. Kropotkin's "The Conquest of Bread-heads" has a lot to answer for.

 

[The39thStep]

I always got the impression that anarchism was a social scene rather than a method of action.

 

[danny la rouge]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/three-held-bank-occupied-020709883.html

When you look at these comrades, you can have nothing but admiration for the selfless and frankly heroic acts of these individuals. For their bravery and commitment to the cause you can do nothing but salute them.

In my opinion this kind of activity is fine, if it is part of a mass movement who can make the state think twice about taking socks actions against individuals [ie those trade unionists the 1970s who were released from prison on spurious grounds when it became evident there would be mass strikes if they remained in prison.] But in the real world nobody can sustain this kind of activity. Who can afford to be constantly arrested, fined, and imprisoned?

So while I salute these people, I also find this methodology a profligate waste of fine activists.

Where did you learn they were anarchists?

 

[Fedayn]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/three-held-bank-occupied-020709883.html

When you look at these comrades, you can have nothing but admiration for the selfless and frankly heroic acts of these individuals. For their bravery and commitment to the cause you can do nothing but salute them.

In my opinion this kind of activity is fine, if it is part of a mass movement who can make the state think twice about taking socks actions against individuals [ie those trade unionists the 1970s who were released from prison on spurious grounds when it became evident there would be mass strikes if they remained in prison.] But in the real world nobody can sustain this kind of activity. Who can afford to be constantly arrested, fined, and imprisoned?

So while I salute these people, I also find this methodology a profligate waste of fine activists.

Just remind me again, you're a member of the SWP aren't you?

 

[Riklet]

Send the NKVD in to sort 'em out, OP.

 

[emanymton]

Where did you learn they were anarchists?

Well they where protesting but not trying to sell papers.

 

[danny la rouge]

Well they where protesting but not try to sell papers.

True; selling papers is the only way a mass movement can make the state think twice about taking socks actions against individuals.

 

[barney_pig]

there is also a magazine and a quarterly journal (have you considered a full spectrum subscription?)

 

[Hocus Eye.]

What is a 'sock action'? I have an image of a long sock with a snooker ball in it used as a weapon.

 

[shagnasty]

What is a 'sock action'? I have an image of a long sock with a snooker ball in it used as a weapon.

You mean like ray winstone in scum

 

[manny-p]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/three-held-bank-occupied-020709883.html

When you look at these comrades, you can have nothing but admiration for the selfless and frankly heroic acts of these individuals. For their bravery and commitment to the cause you can do nothing but salute them.

In my opinion this kind of activity is fine, if it is part of a mass movement who can make the state think twice about taking socks actions against individuals [ie those trade unionists the 1970s who were released from prison on spurious grounds when it became evident there would be mass strikes if they remained in prison.] But in the real world nobody can sustain this kind of activity. Who can afford to be constantly arrested, fined, and imprisoned?

So while I salute these people, I also find this methodology a profligate waste of fine activists.

How is this anarchism?

 

[butchersapron]

pool ball

 

[manny-p]

I always got the impression that anarchism was a social scene rather than a method of action.

If you want to see what true anarchism in action is- look at aragon and to a lesser extent catalunia during the spanish civil. Libertarian Communism is what they called it, thats anarchism as a method of action.

 

[The39thStep]

If you want to see what true anarchism in action is- look at aragon and to a lesser extent catalunia during the spanish civil. Libertarian Communism is what they called it, thats anarchism as a method of action.

Not sure that we can learn a lot from what happened in a largely rural economy with one of the lowest GDPs in the industrialised world nearly 80 years ago.

 

[elfman]

Yeh I agree. I think there are a lot of people, especially when they are younger, are very impatient and want things to happen NOW. They are usually good people and have their heart in the right place but their passion and motivation needs channeling. I think they are seen by most working class people as just 'activists' that are operating in a alien sphere.

btw, I was agreeing about just the individuals. The title of this thread is a load of bollox

 

[malatesta32]

pool ball

doesnt he say 'carry on' after bludgeoning phils daniels?

 

[Pickman's model]

Could a passing mod change the thread title to something meaningful like "another humiliation for rmp3"?

 

[Athos]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/three-held-bank-occupied-020709883.html

When you look at these comrades, you can have nothing but admiration for the selfless and frankly heroic acts of these individuals. For their bravery and commitment to the cause you can do nothing but salute them.

In my opinion this kind of activity is fine, if it is part of a mass movement who can make the state think twice about taking socks actions against individuals [ie those trade unionists the 1970s who were released from prison on spurious grounds when it became evident there would be mass strikes if they remained in prison.] But in the real world nobody can sustain this kind of activity. Who can afford to be constantly arrested, fined, and imprisoned?

So while I salute these people, I also find this methodology a profligate waste of fine activists.

How would you rather see those resources deployed?

Do you think there's any place for a diversity of tactics i.e. a multi-faceted approach?

And, in any event, how do you know these people are anarchists?

 

[manny-p]

Not sure that we can learn a lot from what happened in a largely rural economy with one of the lowest GDPs in the industrialised world nearly 80 years ago.

So we can learn something from it.

 

[SpineyNorman]

This looks promising

 

[Pickman's model]

This looks promising

It would be more promising if people stopped repeating a point I made round post 3

 

[Athos]

It would be more promising if people stopped repeating a point I made round post 3

Or if one person responded to that point.

 

[manny-p]

It would be more promising if people stopped repeating a point I made round post 3

It would be more promising if ResistanceMP3 answered your point.

 

[manny-p]

Or if one person responded to that point.

You beat me to it.

 

[Athos]

So we can learn something from it.

If you really want to bait him, throw in some references to the Makhnovischina and maybe even Kronstadt.