binka
!!!!!!!!!
I wouldn't bet against the lib dems moving to a rejoin policy in 2020. Cable originally said they should respect the 2016 result before changing his mind
Who will be the next Labour leader?
- Thread starter Don Troooomp
- Start date
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
She has a parody account? Is there such big competition amongst internet satirists?
TheHoodedClaw
acknowledging ur soup leg
Galaxy-brain stuff here:
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
"Far left" 
Of course, the voting masses have been clamouring for a new Blairite project and the Tinge did so well
Of course, the voting masses have been clamouring for a new Blairite project and the Tinge did so well
maomao
普費斯
Slimeball tub of lard Roy Hattersley calling for the PLP to defy any Corbynite leader elected by the membership in the Grauniad today and blaming Corbyn for their fourth defeat in a row as if he knew anything about electability. Don't remember his 'genuine democratic socialism' doing so well with the electorate in 87 and 92 when the pointless cunt was deputy leader.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
The chutzpah of Hattersley calling for the return of shadow cabinet elections (which I agree with) when he was part of the right of the party that opposed them and campaigned for the removal of elections is priceless.
Observer is really going for Corbynism/Momentum, Rawnsley saying it should be eradicated.
03gills
Professional Cockwomble
The fact he still managed over 10 million votes considering the onslaught is a fucking miracle imo. I do think adopting a second ref was daft though, Labour were polling 40% on average until that happened. Young people were voting labour last time because of the manifesto not brexit. Once Labour adopted that as policy the election was as good as lost. People can mock Johnson all day long, but he wasn't continually repeating 'get brexit done' for nothing. This only became 'the brexit election' because Labour fell into the trap laid by Campbell & Mandelson. If Labour had maintained its 'jobs first brexit' & 'respecting the referendum' I guarantee there would've been no push for another election by Johnson or Cummings.
I still reckon they would've dropped off from their 12.8 million total in 2017, but the way FPTP works likely means the leave seats staying red would've prevented a Tory majority.
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03gills
Professional Cockwomble
As for who should eventually replace him (not that i'm convinced he should be replaced at the moment) someone with Corbyn's beliefs but a harder edge, willing to confront the shit stirrers in the PLP & really challenge the media narrative & not cave to the Blairites. I love JC, but he failed to confront internal enemies & even after the 2016 chicken coup was still trying to play nice. That was his Achilles heel.
Sort of a Kinnock 1985 moment, but with the roles reversed.
They'll probably have to be a brexiteer as well.
Sort of a Kinnock 1985 moment, but with the roles reversed.
They'll probably have to be a brexiteer as well.
The thing about Corbyn that genuinely frustrated me is that he is a poor orator. He doesn’t explain his philosophy or his reasoning at all will. He has positions that I find perfectly explicable and straightforward to defend and he then seems to fuck it up. If I could have a replacement with heart is the same place but Blair’s oratory ability to convince and persuade, that’d be great.
but if I have to choose just one of those things, it’ll be the heart in the right place every time.
but if I have to choose just one of those things, it’ll be the heart in the right place every time.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
I don't deny any of that but Blair remains and influential figure in the PLP and McDonnell gave in to pressure from that wing of the party. The two can't be seperated.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Meh. They've got excited because Corbyn is finally going but it doesn't mean they're any less irrelevant.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
This McDonnell, the shrinking violet, the one who gives into blairites when they try to persuade him of things the opposite of everything he's believed his entire political life - is he any relation to John McDonnell?
This is a laughably shit narrative - Corbyn might be a bit of a wet blanket, but blairites couldn't talk JMcD of out a burning car. The remainiacs might have been harping on, but the leadership weren't listening to the PLP at any stage during this total gangfuck. They might have been listening to the party membership, but not the PLP.
It's desperate blame avoidance, and it stinks like a dead Badger.
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cantsin
Well-Known Member
that person doesn't exist in the PLP at present unfort. and due to Corbyn, John McDonn, RLB etc p*ssing about for 4 yrs re : Open Selection , that's not going to change over the next 5 - 10 yrs now = dismal little mid - long term legacy
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Supine
Newt Member
A big part of leadership is to share a vision and to empower a team to deliver it. If you can't say it clearly you can't lead.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Leadership schmeadership!
Proper Tidy
Arsed
I'm interested in what you have to say, do you have a powerpoint presentation and a slack group I can read
Supine
Newt Member
I don't know what slack is. I'll leave that to you youngsters.
I stand by what I say though. How can you 'lead' if you don't tell everyone where you are going?
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Can't really disagree with this, it was more the business speak in the first post I wasn't keen on
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
There are a number of Corbyn fans on here. Those who think there is weight and wider meaning to the top down policy making, party control and Parliamentary shenanigans. Those who think that the only lesson to learn is: keep on keeping on. No change needed. If the class reject the party then the blame is with the former and not the latter. But most do a better job of hiding it than 03gills
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Supine
Newt Member
you need to think outside the box to find a paradigm shift if you want to embed key learnings from the leadership focus group.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
you forgot to preface that with "moving forward".
Spandex
A crazy bulbous punchbag of sound
I agree with this. And there's a lot more to criticize Corbyn for, which many, many people have been doing for the past two weeks. However, since it's the season of goodwill I'm going to do some sticking up for Corbyn.
It's important to remember that Corbyn never planned, expected or really wanted to be leader of the Labour party. He just happened to be the token left winger standing when - following Milliband's defeat and, specifically, acting leader Harmen's decision for the party to abstain on the Welfare Reform Bill vote - the membership picked the 'not a centrist, not a moderate' option on the leadership ballot.
He may not've been the best person for the job, but he was the only person in a position to move the party left. For all his personal failings, bad decisions and poor choice of friends he has moved not only the party but the whole Overton window to the left.
Since he spent his whole leadership defending against political attacks, with centrists eager to seize any opportunity to undermine him and replace him with one of their own, there has never been any opportunity for someone better to take over from him. Until now.
For the first time in decades the party has a chance and a realistic possibility to pick a left wing leader of their choice. I just hope they don't fuck it up.
Spandex
A crazy bulbous punchbag of sound
I disagree. Since the 90s Labour have lived by the idea that they can only win from the right. Corbyn's policies have been generally popular. His social democratic ideas have been discussed as a realistic possibility in a way they haven't been for a very long time. Even the Financial Times - hardly a hotbed of socialism - was favourable to them. Johnson felt the need to make big spending promises (for all his promises are worth) to compete with Labour's plans.
What lost the election was Corbyn (due to both fair and unfair criticism), his team's ineptitude and Brexit.
This lunacy shows a misunderstanding of what the Overton window is.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
I don't think it should (only) be attributed to one person or even the LP as a whole but to argue that there has not been a shift in the policies of political parties over the last five years seems like wilful blindness.
In 2010 Labour, the Tories and the LDs had manifestos promising huge cuts in government spending. In 2015 Labour, the Tories and the LDs were still all explicitly signed up to cuts of public services. By 2017 Labour had not just jacked any talk of spending cuts but was pushing for state involvement in utilities, and so successfully that the other parties had to concede ground to them. In 2019 no major party was talking about cuts of public services, in fact all had manifestos promising increased spending.
The above is fundamentally down to the actions of people rather than Corbyn or the LP but there is no doubt Corbyn supported such a movement.
In 2010 Labour, the Tories and the LDs had manifestos promising huge cuts in government spending. In 2015 Labour, the Tories and the LDs were still all explicitly signed up to cuts of public services. By 2017 Labour had not just jacked any talk of spending cuts but was pushing for state involvement in utilities, and so successfully that the other parties had to concede ground to them. In 2019 no major party was talking about cuts of public services, in fact all had manifestos promising increased spending.
The above is fundamentally down to the actions of people rather than Corbyn or the LP but there is no doubt Corbyn supported such a movement.
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