Who will be the next Labour leader?

[Dogsauce]

And they're likely to push for voter id. They've indicated that they wish to continue the full US Republican route of lies, gerrymandering and voter suppression.

only if this is designed to suppress the wc vote then it might not help them if they’re depending more on this vote than urbanite Labour.

(though suspect it’s more aimed at immigrant communities and young people that move around a lot, the latter already being hit by recent rules on voter registration).

 

[Riklet]

Gonna be Long Bailey but she's pretty weak I think. Sounds like a startled geography teacher talking about economics she read about in the Financial Times. I can see Labour choosing her though

Shame Angela Rayner is out cos she would be much better. Obvious option to take them forward.

Kier Starmer just comes across as a disingenuous creep so anyone but him, please. He isnt really that awful though.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

only if this is designed to suppress the wc vote then it might not help them if they’re depending more on this vote than urbanite Labour.

(though suspect it’s more aimed at immigrant communities and young people that move around a lot, the latter already being hit by recent rules on voter registration).

It's aimed at exactly the people it's aimed at in the US. Anyone in the least bit marginal, for whatever reason. Such people are a) more likely to vote Labour/Democrat, and b) more likely to be put off from voting by presenting them with bureaucratic hurdles to clear.

wrt the w/c vote that went tory this last election, don't mistake that for a bunch of marginal people. It's mostly not. It's mostly a bunch of people who feel that they have something to lose - ie not right at the bottom.

 

[Spandex]

Gonna be Long Bailey but she's pretty weak I think. Sounds like a startled geography teacher talking about economics she read about in the Financial Times. I can see Labour choosing her though

Word on the tweet is that RLB has Corbyn loyalists Milne, Halligan and Lansman (so presumably Momentum) on her team. She also has centrists crying in their quinoa, the Jerusalem Post quoting that arse Akehurst as saying if a left candidate wins they probably won't address anti-Semitism, and Guido on the prowl digging for dirt. She's going to need to shine as bright as the sun or she'll end up as Corbyn V2.0.

If her team have any sense her public absence since the election will be because they've sent her on an intensive media handling course. Que Rocky style training montage of her facing an interview in a radio studio, being barked at by a red faced Andrew Neil type and the payoff shot of her smiling sweetly while a Question Time audience roars with laughter...

 

[DJWrongspeed]

It's not inconceivable that whoever is elected leader may not fight the election. If they perform poorly, in what will be a tough year for the conservatives, opinions may change. Sticking with Corbyn didn't turn out great did it?

 

[Mr Moose]

Word on the tweet is that RLB has Corbyn loyalists Milne, Halligan and Lansman (so presumably Momentum) on her team. She also has centrists crying in their quinoa, the Jerusalem Post quoting that arse Akehurst as saying if a left candidate wins they probably won't address anti-Semitism, and Guido on the prowl digging for dirt. She's going to need to shine as bright as the sun or she'll end up as Corbyn V2.0.

If her team have any sense her public absence since the election will be because they've sent her on an intensive media handling course. Que Rocky style training montage of her facing an interview in a radio studio, being barked at by a red faced Andrew Neil type and the payoff shot of her smiling sweetly while a Question Time audience roars with laughter...

RLB is already pretty good in front of camera. The question is more whether she can develop a distinctive message. If she comes in with Corbyn and Milne’s vocal backing she’ll get no honeymoon, no time to bed in as she’ll be firefighting from the off. Their endorsement will be an albatross.

There was a time after the EU elections that a transition from Corbyn to RLB could have been possible, with the energy of a new leader being channeled into Labour’s election drive. That was missed and now Corbyn is toxic, but there is little sign that he acknowledges this.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Milne should be binned off. I knew alex halligan a bit over a decade ago, funnily enough given the fury over his icepick badge he was a labourite who knocked around with loads of trots. He seemed alright at time tbf. Remember he was trying to get an unemployed workers union off ground

 

[Riklet]

RLB is already pretty good in front of camera. The question is more whether she can develop a distinctive message. If she comes in with Corbyn and Milne’s vocal backing she’ll get no honeymoon, no time to bed in as she’ll be firefighting from the off. Their endorsement will be an albatross.

Thats good analysis I think. But I presume she will try a different angle.

This is not what i would describe as "pretty good in front of a camera" however.

 

[treelover]

She doesn't have much charisma, there is also something etheral, other worldly about her, though i am sure she is a very caring and empathetic person.

 

[Argonia]

Had a dream last night that I was the new Labour leader. It wasn't much of a laugh.

 

[Spandex]

RLB is already pretty good in front of camera.

She's not great, going on her appearances during the election campaign. Phrases like 'robotic', 'wooden' and 'lacking charisma' are often used about her. It could just be that she's not comfortable in front of the cameras, and that is something media training can help with. What that won't help with is having a clear vision she can easily communicate and being quick thinking and calm when under pressure.

Johnson is quite at ease in front of a camera - he's an entitled prick who's been appearing on the telly for decades, but he falls apart under pressure, which is why he avoids difficult interviews like the plague.

How good RLB will be at presenting herself is something we'll see once the leadership race actually starts.

The question is more whether she can develop a distinctive message. If she comes in with Corbyn and Milne’s vocal backing she’ll get no honeymoon, no time to bed in as she’ll be firefighting from the off.

I agree with this. If she's too continuity Corbyn she'll be hammered from the off and the Labour civil war will continue fucking up the party as it has done for the past 4 years.

 

[Brainaddict]

I agree with someone above who said strategically the LP could choose a leftist like RLB in order to continue the democratisation of the party and the shifting left of its messages and policies. And then after she's taken 3-4 years of total shit from the media they could get rid and place someone soft leftish in as leader ready for the next election. I'm not saying it would be nice, but it would be playing the electoral game.

Also if RLB takes on Corbyn's media people she's going to do as well as him. Can they really not find any talent that aren't Castro fans but with less media nous than Castro?

 

[kebabking]

I agree with someone above who said strategically the LP could choose a leftist like RLB in order to continue the democratisation of the party and the shifting left of its messages and policies. And then after she's taken 3-4 years of total shit from the media they could get rid and place someone soft leftish in as leader ready for the next election. I'm not saying it would be nice, but it would be playing the electoral game.

Also if RLB takes on Corbyn's media people she's going to do as well as him. Can they really not find any talent that aren't Castro fans but with less media nous than Castro?

Bunker mentality - it's been described by any number of outsiders. If you're not already in the inner circle then you're a Blairite bent on destroying the project. While Corbyn brought his own ossuary of closet-based career-ending hand grenades, anyone who takes over and keeps the Milnes and Co on board is doomed to a similar fate.

They, unfortunately, don't see it like that - they genuinely think it's everyone else's fault.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

My next-door neighbour told me over the garden fence that he’s just joined the Labour Party to get Yvette Cooper elected. So, I thought, I’ll put a stop to that, so I joined to vote for anybody other than her. It was then I discovered the institutional links with terrorism run pretty deep, when I was informed I had become a Provisional member. What do I do now?

 

[03gills]

Absolutely mad there is a libdem on this thread giving it the big time 'losers', I mean fair fucking play really

The limp dems spent more time campaigning against Corbyn than they did Johnson the daft fucks. This election is actually a great example of vote splitting letting the party the majority don't want get in.

Of course that's assuming the 2.6 million votes Labour lost went to the greens, lib dems & SNP, it's entirely possible millions of people who voted Tory in 17' switched to other parties this time but Labour going anti brexit allowed the Tories to mop up the brexit vote. It'll be interesting to see the YouGov survey on where voters actually went.

 

[Cid]

The limp dems spent more time campaigning against Corbyn than they did Johnson the daft fucks. This election is actually a great example of vote splitting letting the party the majority don't want get in.

Of course that's assuming the 2.6 million votes Labour lost went to the greens, lib dems & SNP, it's entirely possible millions of people who voted Tory in 17' switched to other parties this time but Labour going anti brexit allowed the Tories to mop up the brexit vote. It'll be interesting to see the YouGov survey on where voters actually went.

Johnson has the highest percentage share of the vote since 1979.

 

[03gills]

Johnson has the highest percentage share of the vote since 1979.

I love how everyone has completely forgotten that Theresa May only got 329,881‬ less votes than Johnson just two years ago, which was, at the time, the largest popular vote for the Conservative party since 1992. But because the Labour vote unexpectedly surged, it eliminated the Tory majority (everyone thought that what happened this time would happen two years ago i.e. Labour would increase their popular vote slightly but the brexit vote going Tory would fuck them badly) The story of this election is the collapse since 2017 in Labour support, rather than a surge in Tory support (there wasn't)

 

[SpackleFrog]

If she's too continuity Corbyn she'll be hammered from the off and the Labour civil war will continue fucking up the party as it has done for the past 4 years.

You're right. Better to pick a candidate the right wing will support/tolerate and bring about peace in the party.

 

[kebabking]

I personally think that this left-right conflict within the party is overstated as an unending philosophical battle - the problem the PLP, and those within the wider party who don't like them, have with Corbyn and McDonnell, and Abbott and Milne et al is far more personal than that: they don't like their dodgy friends and suspect allegences, and they certainly weren't going to take an imposition of party discipline from people who'd spent the last 30 years voting against the Labour whip and decrying those who did not.

Someone like RLB is certainly going to face opposition over this or that policy - just like any party leader in parliament - but they wouldn't face the kind of visceral hatred that Corbyn and his generation of the parliamentary left aroused. Simply put, LB, Rayner, Lewis and the others weren't friends with hostile regimes or appeared on their propaganda channels, nor did they consort with or praise people who were killing British citizens whether at home or abroad.

You do sometimes have to question the emotional intelligence of those endlessly prattle on about systems, not personalities....

 

[Proper Tidy]

I personally think that this left-right conflict within the party is overstated as an unending philosophical battle - the problem the PLP, and those within the wider party who don't like them, have with Corbyn and McDonnell, and Abbott and Milne et al is far more personal than that: they don't like their dodgy friends and suspect allegences, and they certainly weren't going to take an imposition of party discipline from people who'd spent the last 30 years voting against the Labour whip and decrying those who did not.

Someone like RLB is certainly going to face opposition over this or that policy - just like any party leader in parliament - but they wouldn't face the kind of visceral hatred that Corbyn and his generation of the parliamentary left aroused. Simply put, LB, Rayner, Lewis and the others weren't friends with hostile regimes or appeared on their propaganda channels, nor did they consort with or praise people who were killing British citizens whether at home or abroad.

You do sometimes have to question the emotional intelligence of those endlessly prattle on about systems, not personalities....

Honestly though this is completely wrong. Tony Benn for instance could not have been more 'moderate' friendly in background etc, he was a moderate for most of his political career, had been a minister however many times, was posh, ticked every box to be acceptable face of left but they fucking hated him intensely right up to when he died at which point he became a towering giant of the labour party again (ignore that he spent his final decade or two being a bit involved with the SWP).

The labour left are tolerated by mainstream labour types as long as they are just a background faction, it's when they threaten to take control the ire comes out. Eg tolerance of Militant prior to 80s, or for that matter Corbyn & McDonnell when just inconsequential backbenchers even though this was the period when they were openly praising the provos and all that. What was that Blair quote about Corbyn (his own MP) - you don't have to worry about Corbyn taking power, or something.

The idea labour would be perfectly happy with a leader from the same political current but with less baggage is bollocks. In the 90s the labour party had full time officials who reviewed member lists and put a T next to anybody they thought might be in favour of nationalising stuff.

 

[redsquirrel]

I think that's pretty naive and ahistoric. The conflict between different wings of the LP is nothing new and it was, and is, always philosophical.
For a modern examples look at the comeback Miliband faced when he wanted to move to the left - the swift shutting down by the PLP establishment of rail renationalisation, the support for Harman's policy of abstention on welfare cuts.

This is not (only) about personality. It is a clear political attack on the move to the left the LP has taken since 2015.

He told the BBC: “There are some very simple things you have to do: you have to have a credible leader, you have to be credible when it comes to the economy and security, you have to have a manifesto programme that is credible and speaks about the challenges that the country faces. Those are the things we didn’t do in the most recent general election.”

Proper Tidy said it better than me.

 

[03gills]

You're right. Better to pick a candidate the right wing will support/tolerate and bring about peace in the party.

Na fuck that, if they'd got on-board the Corbyn train from the off just to see where it went rather than fighting a constant war of attrition with their own party, we'd likely already be in government with a small majority & they could've used their influence to moderate Corbyn's excesses. Instead they decided to act like a bunch of petulant tossers because they didn't get their own way, & now Boris fucking Johnson has an 80 seat majority & these fucks are *still* trying to deflect blame & attack their own party.

I agree with someone above who said strategically the LP could choose a leftist like RLB in order to continue the democratisation of the party and the shifting left of its messages and policies. And then after she's taken 3-4 years of total shit from the media they could get rid and place someone soft leftish in as leader ready for the next election. I'm not saying it would be nice, but it would be playing the electoral game.

You might as well keep Corbyn in place if that's the plan, nothing the media or plp do or say to him now will make any difference as he won't be Labour leader in 2024. Actually, the more i think about it the more i think that's actually a good idea.

Honestly though this is completely wrong. Tony Benn for instance could not have been more 'moderate' friendly in background etc, he was a moderate for most of his political career, had been a minister however many times, was posh, ticked every box to be acceptable face of left but they fucking hated him intensely right up to when he died at which point he became a towering giant of the labour party again (ignore that he spent his final decade or two being a bit involved with the SWP).

The labour left are tolerated by mainstream labour types as long as they are just a background faction, it's when they threaten to take control the ire comes out. Eg tolerance of Militant prior to 80s, or for that matter Corbyn & McDonnell when just inconsequential backbenchers even though this was the period when they were openly praising the provos and all that. What was that Blair quote about Corbyn (his own MP) - you don't have to worry about Corbyn taking power, or something.

The idea labour would be perfectly happy with a leader from the same political current but with less baggage is bollocks. In the 90s the labour party had full time officials who reviewed member lists and put a T next to anybody they thought might be in favour of nationalising stuff.

Benn said this himself, asked why he was seen as a ''national hero'' these days he replied 'because i'm no longer a threat', basically once it became clear he was never getting near power, the media stopped treating him as the left wing bogeyman & he became cuddly Tony Benn. Look at Corbyn, not even 24 hours after the result & Sky released a puff piece highlighting his anti racism activism & portraying him in a good light.

 

[Big Bertha]

I love how everyone has completely forgotten that Theresa May only got 329,881‬ less votes than Johnson just two years ago, which was, at the time, the largest popular vote for the Conservative party since 1992. But because the Labour vote unexpectedly surged, it eliminated the Tory majority (everyone thought that what happened this time would happen two years ago i.e. Labour would increase their popular vote slightly but the brexit vote going Tory would fuck them badly) The story of this election is the collapse since 2017 in Labour support, rather than a surge in Tory support (there wasn't)

 

[brogdale]

Na fuck that, if they'd got on-board the Corbyn train from the off just to see where it went rather than fighting a constant war of attrition with their own party, we'd likely already be in government with a small majority & they could've used their influence to moderate Corbyn's excesses. Instead they decided to act like a bunch of petulant tossers because they didn't get their own way, & now Boris fucking Johnson has an 80 seat majority & these fucks are *still* trying to deflect blame & attack their own party.



You might as well keep Corbyn in place if that's the plan, nothing the media or plp do or say to him now will make any difference as he won't be Labour leader in 2024. Actually, the more i think about it the more i think that's actually a good idea.




Benn said this himself, asked why he was seen as a ''national hero'' these days he replied 'because i'm no longer a threat', basically once it became clear he was never getting near power, the media stopped treating him as the left wing bogeyman & he became cuddly Tony Benn. Look at Corbyn, not even 24 hours after the result & Sky released a puff piece highlighting his anti racism activism & portraying him in a good light.

Loving the Steve Hillage (circa 1977) look.

 

[Spandex]

Better to pick a candidate the right wing will support/tolerate and bring about peace in the party.

No, better not to, cos then some centrist cunt would be in charge.

 

[kebabking]

No, better not to, cos then some centrist cunt would be in charge.

SpackleFrog was being sarcastic.

 

[Cid]

I love how everyone has completely forgotten that Theresa May only got 329,881‬ less votes than Johnson just two years ago, which was, at the time, the largest popular vote for the Conservative party since 1992. But because the Labour vote unexpectedly surged, it eliminated the Tory majority (everyone thought that what happened this time would happen two years ago i.e. Labour would increase their popular vote slightly but the brexit vote going Tory would fuck them badly) The story of this election is the collapse since 2017 in Labour support, rather than a surge in Tory support (there wasn't)

Not the point... You were saying it's a "great example of vote splitting letting the party the majority don't want get in". Which is not really the case a) because parties having an absolute majority is vanishingly rare (it's always the party the majority don't want), and b) because it doesn't seem to be a case of vote splitting. At least the lib dem vote split doesn't seem to have been a major influence in terms of seats. Labour didn't lose in the north because loads of people decamped to the yellows, they even held Hallam.

 

[tim]

Lessons from campaigning in the Labour heartland seat of Barnsley - LabourList

Interesting perspective by Dan Jarvis, says he was nearly attacked on the doorstep

He's the MP for Barnsley and also Mayor of Sheffield City Region, presumably drawing two salaries. No indication that he feels that holding the two jobs simultaneously is incompatible.

 

[stolinski]

Who will be the next Labour leader?



Ken will be. You heard it here first

 

[SpackleFrog]

SpackleFrog was being sarcastic.

Thanks, glad someone noticed.