Who will be the next Labour leader?

[Wilf]

There's some proper wtf moments in this interview tbf. A stillborn leadership run IMO.

I’ve spent 40 plus years as Clive Lewis, and one of the things you have to come to terms with is you are no longer just Clive Lewis – you are Clive Lewis MP. It does come with responsibilities, and so someone asking to be in a picture with you, and you putting your arm around them and hugging them in, [I have to remember that I’m doing it as] Clive Lewis MP, in the public eye. So there is a power dynamic, which means that you just can’t do that. So I have had to change how I engage with people – women especially. It’s a really sad thing to say, but it is a sign of our times. I also have to think about that when I’m alone with female activists. You never want to be in a situation where someone can make a claim when it’s their word against yours. Those are the things you have to think about now: you shouldn’t have to, and I never did before, but I think since the #MeToo movement, there’s a more heightened sense about those power relationships.

I also had to apologise to someone for picking them up and spinning them around, and that’s something I would have done without thinking in my time as Clive Lewis. I’ve gone through my life without having a reputation for being a groper – as far as I’m aware no one at the BBC in the 12 years I worked there claimed that I was a groper. I’m sure that someone would have said if that was the case, or if I’d unduly touched someone in the wrong way. And you know, in the army it never happened. So for me to now, as an MP, suddenly start thinking that I can get away with groping people, which I’ve not done for the vast majority of my adult life… why would I start now?

Clive Lewis: ‘It’s time to tell the truth’

That line about being '40 years Clive Lewis' and suggesting he can't do the things he used to as Clive Lewis: It has the feel of being a rehearsed line, ready for this leadership bid. But it still makes him sound more gropey.

Pre-Clive Lewis MP Clive Lewis - he's the real victim here...

 

[killer b]

As an interview to launch his leadership bid, it's quite something

 

[Dawn Crescendo]

Thing is, blair wasn't a cunt just because of iraq. He was a cunt for all sorts of reasons. New labour was shit.

But he won three elections on the trot and actually getting elected is what matters.

 

[Cid]

In terms of the registered supporters, there's certainly some leeway for the NEC to vary the rules conditions, iirc. For example the amount went up from something like a £3 donation to a £25 donation, to get a vote, between Corbyn's first and second victories. Can't remember whether the NEC has the power to vary things even more?

Yeah, I think they can... At a guess they'll keep them high, for basically the same reasons their counterparts upped them. Don't think it's overly likely that there'll be an influx of left registered supporters.

Also note there aren't any major time limits on joining/registering (there are limits but they're defined in terms of the gap between formal announcement of timetable and time to vote).

 

[Proper Tidy]

But he won three elections on the trot and actually getting elected is what matters.

Strictly speaking I think changing things for the better is what matters

 

[Cid]

I don't know will be the next leader of the Labour party but I do know that whoever it is will have a very long uphill struggle. Much as I dislike the idea it will need to be someone like Blair but unlike him they will need to keep out of conflicts in the middle and near east and they will need to reconnect with the working class.

So nothing like Blair then.

 

[killer b]

This is a solid pitch from Starmer this evening - he's way ahead of everyone else.

Another future is possible – for our country and our party - LabourList

 

[two sheds]

But he won three elections on the trot and actually getting elected is what matters.

what you do when you've been elected is what matters though

 

[Marty1]

Starmer - a remainer, yes?

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

I’m pissed.

Well, that doesn't usually stop people posting here.

 

[Proper Tidy]

This is a solid pitch from Starmer this evening - he's way ahead of everyone else.

Another future is possible – for our country and our party - LabourList

This is quite a paragraph for somebody who was DPP/head of CPS. Anyway, I suppose it's some sort of positive that they all have to speak the language of the left now, from a place a few years back where they wouldn't even mention the s word. Maybe it's not a positive thing, I dunno.

 

[Humberto]

Preferably not a 'best of a bad bunch' scenario. There aren't really any high profile 'good with the public' types. Happy to be corrected but none spring to mind. I don't buy the 'they must be Northern and a woman' shit either. That's to miss the point. Hold them to account and come up with a distinctive set of policies.

I suppose now that the Tories have the mandate they can 'fix' the BBC (already obvious), and wield the antisemitism trump card. And suck up to American elites. They (Tories/Johnson) are shit. Anyone or any group not shit are welcome to apply.

 

[kebabking]

what you do when you've been elected is what matters though

It does, but what should now be obvious to even the slowest of slow learners is that in politics you can either have some of what you want, and some of what you aren't keen on but can live with, or you can have pretty much none of what you want and a great deal of what you don't want.

This week's lesson is primarily focused at arch-remainers and Corbyn fans.

Labour have got to return to some form of Blairism to return to power - the bits they need to concentrate on are looking like a government in waiting and not a bunch of NUS twats fighting in a sack, and the ruthless control of, and pushing of, the message.

Blairism would not have produced the scattergun, gangfuck manifesto that canvassers and candidates couldn't either keep up with or reel off.

That's not primarily about this or that policy, it's about the development of policy, message management, and media management.

The 2017 manifesto/campaign was far more blairite in its professionalism than 2019 - this time there was no central, one line message, the grid was all over the place, and candidates simply weren't trusted to speak to their local media, so they got no coverage.

 

[bimble]

Bit off topic but have three word slogans (take back control, get brexit done ) always been an important thing or is that a recent development ? Did Blair have one ? (Cant remember wasn't paying attention back then). For the many just wasn't very good.
eta some of these are so bad:
List of U.K. political slogans - Wikipedia

 

[William of Walworth]

I suppose now that the Tories have the mandate they can 'fix' the BBC (already obvious), and wield the antisemitism trump card. And suck up to American elites. They (Tories/Johnson) are shit. Anyone or any group not shit are welcome to apply.

This will quickly become something more difficult for the Tories to exploit, because even a quarter-competent new leader will know that taking proper action on tackling antisemitism in the Labour Party has to be something to prioritise, and very quickly.

 

[William of Walworth]

For the many just wasn't very good.

"For the many not the few" was pretty good as a slogan I thought.

But its failure to cut through was because "Get Brexit done" was so much "better" (inverted commas deliberate ).

Plus there were all sorts of other anti-Labour factors in play as well .....

 

[maomao]

It does, but what should now be obvious to even the slowest of slow learners is that in politics you can either have some of what you want, and some of what you aren't keen on but can live with, or you can have pretty much none of what you want and a great deal of what you don't want.

This week's lesson is primarily focused at arch-remainers and Corbyn fans.

Labour have got to return to some form of Blairism to return to power - the bits they need to concentrate on are looking like a government in waiting and not a bunch of NUS twats fighting in a sack, and the ruthless control of, and pushing of, the message.

Blairism would not have produced the scattergun, gangfuck manifesto that canvassers and candidates couldn't either keep up with or reel off.

That's not primarily about this or that policy, it's about the development of policy, message management, and media management.

The 2017 manifesto/campaign was far more blairite in its professionalism than 2019 - this time there was no central, one line message, the grid was all over the place, and candidates simply weren't trusted to speak to their local media, so they got no coverage.

So you're using the word Blairite to mean 'capable of a well organised election campaign' and not referring to a political position at all? Because it felt like they got elected in order to continue privatising everything, cut back the welfare state and abandon the working class rather than the other way round.

Also Blair wouldn't have just lost the 2019 election he would have lost his seat as well.

 

[Libertad]

But he won three elections on the trot and actually getting elected is what matters.

Huzzah! Here come the centrist entryists to save us from ourselves.

 

[Almor]

But he won three elections on the trot and actually getting elected is what matters.

Then join the tories, they won the last election, help em win a few more instead of Blairite shitting all over any hope of a meaningful labour party?

 

[maomao]

Boris Johnson is an even more successful Blairite than Blair himself.

 

[redsquirrel]

So you're using the word Blairite to mean 'capable of a well organised election campaign' and not referring to a political position at all? Because it felt like they got elected in order to continue privatising everything, cut back the welfare state and abandon the working class rather than the other way round.

Also Blair wouldn't have just lost the 2019 election he would have lost his seat as well.

This. Also the first paragraph does not seem to match up with the latter paragraphs.

 

[kebabking]

So you're using the word Blairite to mean 'capable of a well organised election campaign' and not referring to a political m position at all? Because it felt like they got elected in order to continue privatising everything, cut back the welfare state and abandon the working class rather than the other way round.

Also Blair wouldn't have just lost the 2019 election he would have lost his seat as well.

No, I'm using in a wider way than just that - it was was also about choosing what one or two things were important/critical, and putting the other 59 things you really wanted to do on the back burner. Blairism also understood that having a conversation with the electorate that meant the ground work for your manifesto was laid also meant having a (sometimes difficult) conversation with your party about what was, and was not, achievable - and getting the party to understand that it's the electorate who get the final say, not the party.

 

[Dawn Crescendo]

Huzzah! Here come the centrist entryists to save us from ourselves.

Then join the tories, they won the last election, help em win a few more instead of Blairite shitting all over any hope of a meaningful labour party?

To me it is no longer of interest .. I am 67 years of age and in poor health by the time you lot have learned the lessons I will be underground somewhere dead as a Dodo.

 

[Mr Moose]

To me it is no longer of interest .. I am 67 years of age and in poor health by the time you lot have learned the lessons I will be underground somewhere dead as a Dodo.

Sorry to hear that and I hope it’s not so.

I don’t think anybody wants the Labour Party to choose a course that locks it out of power. But Blair squandered that power and the result is where we are now, working class communities who don’t see Labour as its natural allies.

The Labour Party has to offer more than reheated Thatcherism. Finding the sweetspot for that to be successful electorally is not easy, but if Labour doesn’t then people will conclude they are better off doing their politics locally and through non-Parliamentary means.

 

[Pickman's model]

It does, but what should now be obvious to even the slowest of slow learners is that in politics you can either have some of what you want, and some of what you aren't keen on but can live with, or you can have pretty much none of what you want and a great deal of what you don't want.

This week's lesson is primarily focused at arch-remainers and Corbyn fans.

Labour have got to return to some form of Blairism to return to power - the bits they need to concentrate on are looking like a government in waiting and not a bunch of NUS twats fighting in a sack, and the ruthless control of, and pushing of, the message.

Blairism would not have produced the scattergun, gangfuck manifesto that canvassers and candidates couldn't either keep up with or reel off.

That's not primarily about this or that policy, it's about the development of policy, message management, and media management.

The 2017 manifesto/campaign was far more blairite in its professionalism than 2019 - this time there was no central, one line message, the grid was all over the place, and candidates simply weren't trusted to speak to their local media, so they got no coverage.

any return to any form of blairism is electoral suicide. what the labour party have to do if they desire to return to government is move forwards rather than back.

 

[chilango]

Worth remembering that this defeat is very much a consequence of Blair's victory.

 

[skyscraper101]

Worth remembering that this defeat is very much a consequence of Blair's victory.

We could root it ultimately back to Blair, but it's important not to lose sight of Ed Miliband's specific role had in scuppering David Miliband's leadership chances and becoming the least convincing contender for PM this century.

That's not an endorsement of DM, just a genuine feeling on how EM's complete failure to connect and oftentimes ludicrous performance on camera lost any chance Labour had in 2015 with the knock on effect of galvanizing a misguided left surge when Corbyn threw his hat in.

*misguided in terms of the realistic chances of winning back power.

 

[Supine]

Worth remembering that this defeat is very much a consequence of Blair's victory.

In that labour stopped trying to appeal to large sections of the population by only talking to the left maybe. To win an election you need mass appeal so you need to be on message with defence, security and a host of other subjects rather than just redistribution of wealth.

That's no criticism of redistribution but it's not enough on its own.

 

[cantsin]

We could root it ultimately back to Blair, but it's important not to lose sight of Ed Miliband's specific role had in scuppering David Miliband's leadership chances and becoming the least convincing contender for PM this century.

That's not an endorsement of DM, just a genuine feeling on how EM's complete failure to connect and oftentimes ludicrous performance on camera lost any chance Labour had in 2015 with the knock on effect of galvanizing a misguided left surge when Corbyn threw his hat in.

*misguided in terms of the realistic chances of winning back power.

" misguided left surge " that's been reflected in pockets of similar response to the growing crisis in late stage cap all over the world, cos that's where we are /and are headed ? Only thing remotely " misguided" about it is arguably our idea that there's now somehow a Parliamentary Road out of the misery / chaos / madness..

 

[SpookyFrank]

Thing is, blair wasn't a cunt just because of iraq. He was a cunt for all sorts of reasons. New labour was shit.

Yes, I don't recall his tenure being a time of peace and plenty. Mostly I remember a series of dreadful authoritarian home secretaries criminalising everything that wasn't nailed down, privatisations so dodgy even the tories would have steered clear of them, and the start of the project to undermine the very idea of a welfare state. Before he even got elected Blair had managed to completely discredit the idea of raising taxes in a progressive way, and the legacy of that is clearly still with us.

Anyway, 'why Blair was a cunt' is another thread and probably one we don't need right now.