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What will the unforeseen consequences of the war be?

RD2003

Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Assuming we avoid the war to end us all, there are bound to be some unforeseen consequences of the Ukraine fiasco, just as with Afghanistan (Soviet version), where, with hindsight, the definitive victory of the Soviet-backed secular government could have headed off international terroristic Islamism coming into its own (?)

The flood of western arms into Ukraine, as well as the multiple non-military interferences, although arising from a similar inability of western governments to restrain themselves, isn't likely to provoke anything like the heavily-contested 'Clash of Civilisations,' but there are bound to be some unexpected outcomes.

I have no real idea what these will be, but the world has definitely changed once again in these last few weeks, no matter who emerges as the recognised victor in this shitty war.

To start off, win or lose, in Russia the working class and more politically-minded disenfranchised youths etc etc may be set to be captured by ethnic nationalism to an extent we've never seen before. Or maybe not... Perhaps this will be the last throw of the dice for neo-liberalism's illusions, and we will have another 1990s-style period of 'liberal triumphalism' before another crisis, internal to Russia or international, shits on it again. One thing we can be sure of is that socialism will be nowhere.

In the West, a lot depends on outcomes we can't really predict yet. The unity being shown across the EU, for example, can't possibly last. The EU remains a fragile entity, and those who vote for the likes of Orban, the gang currently in office in Poland, and the radical right in western Europe are not going to be kept permanently happy once Ukraine goes on the back-burner again. The economic consequences of the war will be a major factor.

What will Russia's relationship with China become, whether Putin/'Putinism' falls or a new gang takes over, neo-liberal in outlook or more nationalistic than Putin (both are possibilities)?

And then we have the possible victory of 'Trumpism' in a couple of years' time. Will Ukraine have broken this 'movement's' isolationist impulses?
 
Relations between the West and China? Maybe it's now possible to think about governments and companies moving manufacturing to other countries.
 
Prepare for... unforeseen consequences.



But seriously, dorky video game references aside, predicting the future is at best highly contingent on assumptions, or at worst a total mug's game. The problem as I see it is simply of information. Even think tanks which do this shit for a living miss out on crucial factors.

Of course, that doesn't mean that there's anything stopping us from speculating anyway.
 
Prepare for... unforeseen consequences.



But seriously, dorky video game references aside, predicting the future is at best highly contingent on assumptions, or at worst a total mug's game. The problem as I see it is simply of information. Even think tanks which do this shit for a living miss out on crucial factors.

Of course, that doesn't mean that there's anything stopping us from speculating anyway.
It's quite clearly a thread for speculation.
 
Wars tend to make people rally to the flag and might give governments cover to crush internal opponents with more force - reasonable to anticipate a lot of Russian (and Belorussian) refugees in coming years, an exodus of the educated young - those with the social/financial capital to escape the not-so-creeping authoritarianism. In a country that already has an ageing demographic this could change Russian society significantly, older more conservative voices becoming more dominant. One of the reasons why there hasn’t been as much internal pressure may be down to this absence of a mass of younger people. Places where there have been ‘spring’ uprising have often had large younger populations, often affected by unemployment etc. adding to social pressure for change.

On a similar theme, it was notable before the Iraq war that there was the beginning of a mass movement in Iran, a country with a very bottom-heavy population spread, with more opposition to religious conservatism and authoritarian rule, more liberal politicians gaining in power. A (possibly unforeseen) consequence of Bush’s ‘war on Islam’ was that a population feeling under threat turned back to strong authoritarian leaders and this movement was stubbed out, still not having returned as continuing sanctions have kept a focus on external enemies rather than internal change. Russia is likely to be the same.

Also curious about how this will affect places like Georgia, and whether they push back against previous Russian imperialist gains, with expectation the ‘west’ might have their back this time.
 
Wars tend to make people rally to the flag and might give governments cover to crush internal opponents with more force - reasonable to anticipate a lot of Russian (and Belorussian) refugees in coming years, an exodus of the educated young - those with the social/financial capital to escape the not-so-creeping authoritarianism. In a country that already has an ageing demographic this could change Russian society significantly, older more conservative voices becoming more dominant. One of the reasons why there hasn’t been as much internal pressure may be down to this absence of a mass of younger people. Places where there have been ‘spring’ uprising have often had large younger populations, often affected by unemployment etc. adding to social pressure for change.

On a similar theme, it was notable before the Iraq war that there was the beginning of a mass movement in Iran, a country with a very bottom-heavy population spread, with more opposition to religious conservatism and authoritarian rule, more liberal politicians gaining in power. A (possibly unforeseen) consequence of Bush’s ‘war on Islam’ was that a population feeling under threat turned back to strong authoritarian leaders and this movement was stubbed out, still not having returned as continuing sanctions have kept a focus on external enemies rather than internal change. Russia is likely to be the same.

Also curious about how this will affect places like Georgia, and whether they push back against previous Russian imperialist gains, with expectation the ‘west’ might have their back this time.
At least if Adam Curtis can be believed (yes, i do know...), in Egypt, one unforeseen consequence of their 'spring' was that many of its young activists backed the military reaction to the, for them, inadvertent opening it gave to the Muslim Brotherhood.
 
There is also an assumption at large in the West that the mass wave of Ukrainian refugees are welcomed by everybody and will go back to rebuild their country after the almost inevitable Ukrainian victory.

The Ukrainians I've known mostly seemed to be, at heart, sick of their country, and had no intention of ever going back permanently. They had tasted what is, despite many difficulties, an easier life. But these were educated professionals. I have no idea, and could be wrong, but I suspect that this may also be the case in the current influx (we hear about the current 'brain drain' from both Ukraine and Russia.)

Is this set to cause social tension in the west, or will it be mostly regarded as ok because they are white? And will they remain mostly hidden because of being brainies, and thus more easily integrated into our middle class?

And what will happen if it turns out that many of those who don't wish to go home are not educated professionals at all?
 
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One surprising potential positive might be the way the disruption to supply chains has brought home the tenuousness of global trade as bringer of material security. China's always been aware that food security is a strategic necessity but this has brought that into sharper relief and will perhaps slow they way it's been chipped away by the lure of cheap imports. Seen other countries make similar noises. Of course, not so many other states are as well-placed or powerful enough to do much about it, but my point in summary is maybe slow down the headlong charge a bit. Though of course all sorts of incentives will still push the other way.
 
There is also an assumption at large in the West that the mass wave of Ukrainian refugees are welcomed by everybody and will go back to rebuild their country after the almost inevitable Ukrainian victory.

The Ukrainians I've known mostly seemed to be, at heart, sick of their country, and had no intention of ever going back permanently. They had tasted what is, despite many difficulties, an easier life. But these were educated professionals. I have no idea, and could be wrong, but I suspect that this may also be the case in the current influx (we hear about the current 'brain drain' from both Ukraine and Russia.)

Is this set to cause social tension in the west, or will it be mostly regarded as ok because they are white? And will they remain mostly hidden because of being brainies, and thus more easily integrated into our middle class?

And what will happen if it turns out that many of those who don't wish to go home are not educated professionals at all?

On the latter point (domestically) I think it’s come at a time of a reasonably active and growing economy (though perhaps under threat from inflation amplified by the war) and labour shortages in certain industries, so tensions might not arise quickly - the overall numbers too might not be that great given the spiteful barriers put up by this government and the distance from Ukraine. Other countries with huge influxes might have bigger problems just physically accommodating the numbers.

I’m not sure whether the whiteness will make that great a difference, there was massive prejudice towards Eastern European communities in recent years, round where I used to live lots of spurious grumbles about (already dead) high streets being taken over by Polish supermarkets, street drinking ‘gangs’ (mainly native population), people feeling threatened by hearing a different language on trains etc.
 
There is also an assumption at large in the West that the mass wave of Ukrainian refugees are welcomed by everybody and will go back to rebuild their country after the almost inevitable Ukrainian victory.

The Ukrainians I've known mostly seemed to be, at heart, sick of their country, and had no intention of ever going back permanently. They had tasted what is, despite many difficulties, an easier life. But these were educated professionals. I have no idea, and could be wrong, but I suspect that this may also be the case in the current influx (we hear about the current 'brain drain' from both Ukraine and Russia.)

Is this set to cause social tension in the west, or will it be mostly regarded as ok because they are white? And will they remain mostly hidden because of being brainies, and thus more easily integrated into our middle class?

And what will happen if it turns out that many of those who don't wish to go home are not educated professionals at all?

holy fuck dude

have you tried applying for a job at Gbnews or talk radio

:hmm:
 
holy fuck dude

have you tried applying for a job at Gbnews or talk radio

:hmm:
No.

But I would if they'd have me, on what would probably be the only decent salary I've ever had in my miserable fucking life (not that I've ever had a 'salary', as opposed to a mere wage.)

And I'd set about turning the cunts inside fucking out.
 
The rise of protestware bringing about a change in how open source libraries are consumed?

A developer has been caught adding malicious code to a popular open-source package that wiped files on computers located in Russia and Belarus as part of a protest that has enraged many users and raised concerns about the safety of free and open source software.

The application, node-ipc, adds remote interprocess communication and neural networking capabilities to other open source code libraries. As a dependency, node-ipc is automatically downloaded and incorporated into other libraries, including ones like Vue.js CLI, which has more than 1 million weekly downloads.

An an example of unintended effects of this change:
We are an American NGO based in Washington, D.C. that monitors human rights infringements by authoritarian regimes in Belarus, Russia and other post-Soviet states. Since our start in 2014, we have been in contact with over 2,500 whistleblowers that provided us with detailed reports on various kinds of abuse happening there.

Due to internet censorship there, one of the web services used to contact us securely was hosted on servers located inside Belarus. Normally, we backup the received content to an external server on 20th day of every month, as this is reasonable given the volume we usually get, but since the start of the invasion on February 24th, traffic to our web service has increased over fiftyfold. Our staff has been working round the clock to accomodate the influx and during one of their tasks, package containing node-ipc module was updated on a production server, which resulted in executing your code and wiping over 30,000 messages and files detailing war crimes commited in Ukraine by Russian army and government officials. Due to the way the files were stored on the server, we are not able to recover any data and it's most likely gone forever. For some of the senders, this might as well have been their last contact with the outside world, as many of them were front-line soldiers that could've been killed in action during the offensive.

Personally, me and my colleagues are absolutely devastated. All I can say that your little shenanigan did more damage to us than Putin or Lukashenka ever could. Profesionally, our counsel suggested filing criminal charges federally and it's likely we'll be proceeding this way.
kvcb - snippet.host - apparently taken from the now deleted github ticket which put the protestware into the node-ipc package.
 
Possibly an end to Russian dominance of Central Asia. Now that their weakness has been displayed, China will pursue their interests there more forcefully, and India rather than Russia will be their main competitor for influence.

In the longer term, there could be an EU army formed. Greater spending and cooperation between EU member states, joint training exercises etc will ultimately put this on the agenda. This will ironically to a diminished role for NATO.

There could also be the formation of an Asian NATO equivalent, and Japan going nuclear.
 
Energy
Food
Water

They have always been the background drivers to varying degrees and dependent upon the perspective of the nation state but now hugely in focus with the complex frailty of the extant accepted order. They have always been weaponised to a degree but I expect them to be pivotal in the ( spiralling downward) trajectory of mankind
 
Think the thread title is a bit clunky in hindsight (a bit pissed last night.) It needs editing to a simple Unforeseen Consequences of the War, but I don't know how to do it/if it has to be a mod.
 
Well this sprawling piece covers much territory. Some parts made me groan, some are reasonable to consider. It ends by mentioning that fog of war McNamara film, which I had forgotten about but do remember seeing much earlier this century.

I will treat it as a starting point, drawing attention to various angles.

 
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Energy
Food
Water

They have always been the background drivers to varying degrees and dependent upon the perspective of the nation state but now hugely in focus with the complex frailty of the extant accepted order. They have always been weaponised to a degree but I expect them to be pivotal in the ( spiralling downward) trajectory of mankind
As with Johnson's inept witterings today, it's all being presented as a battle between 'free' societies and not-free societies. Democrats versus authoritarians. Goodies versus baddies.

Thirty years on, Fukuyama's idea that liberal democarcy is some kind of natural endpoint of history is still being pushed despite the world having constantly refused to comply.

I hope it's just politically convenient rhetoric, and doesn't mean that they really haven't seriously considered the coming climate chaos and the inevitable resource/ energy wars, and what they will do to all the old assumptions.
 
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Various bits of legislation passed this century does not imply that they believe the end of history was anything more than a crap rhetorical device.
 
Fwiw, here's some "I reckons" from Peter Gelderloos:
How will the outcome of this conflict affect ongoing geopolitics, shaping the wars to come, both cold and hot?


I think that whether or not a Western-oriented, democratic government in Ukraine survives this war, we can already say with a fair degree of certainty that among states, the losers will be the United States and Russia, and the winners will be China, India, Saudi Arabia, and other mid-range states. And among capitalists, aside from the obvious observation that arms companies will make a killing, we can single out energy companies—both fossil fuel and renewable—as the big winners.

Russia will lose any of its remaining sparkle as a superpower and nearly all of its regional leverage if it fails to oust the Ukrainian government, though if it manages to take Odessa and with it the entirety of the Ukrainian coast, it will have acquired a significant consolation prize. But even if Russia wins in Ukraine, it will have accelerated the expansion of NATO along its borders and isolated itself from most other states and international bodies. It will also hasten the decline of its major economic lever on the world stage, its fossil fuel output, second only to that of the US but a much larger portion of its GDP (over 50%, in fact, which is to say Russia has no economy without fuel exports).


The economic sanctions levied by Western institutions will not bring the Russian government to its knees. As effectively detailed here they have not accomplished that goal in Iran, and Russia is much better insulated against such sanctions. But they do serve to limit Russia’s possible global alliances and economic leverage, and they might even encourage some of Russia’s capitalist class to imagine a government without Putin.


The cancellation of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline that was set to bring more Russian gas to Germany and the European market is a far greater loss than a friendly government in Ukraine could ever make up for. My only guess is that Putin made this miscalculation because he was spooked by the recent uprising in Kazakhstan, another country Moscow sees as its backyard. As a statist and, what’s more, one with a background in intelligence services, Putin is prone to the paranoid and unrealistic view suffered by government leaders everywhere, that people are not smart enough to rise up on their own and only ever do so as puppets. He probably misread the Kazakhstan uprising as Western interference, a step towards the final dismantling of the Russian Empire, created by the tsars in centuries of bloody warfare against hundreds of Indigenous peoples, expanded by the state capitalists of the USSR, and inherited in diminished form by Putin, who is an explicit revanchist.


The reason the US government will be a loser is more subtle but extremely important. First, though, let’s look at what the US has won. The US has positioned itself in a conflict with relatively little direct risk, in which it is all but guaranteed to play the role of good guy. What’s more, this is a conflict that drastically increases European unity, reviving Euro-nationalism, and plying Germany and France away from their budding friendship with Russia. This can only be a good thing, from NATO’s point of view. What’s more, the US has increased its credibility, much damaged after the years of Bush and Trump.


A week before the invasion, I was sure that Russia would not attack Ukraine, almost entirely because the US government said it would. The daily reports quoting anonymous intelligence officials seemed lifted from the playbook used to prepare for the invasion of Iraq in 2003. It turned out, though, the US government has multiple playbooks, and this time they were telling the truth. In a less typical use of information warfare, the US government seems to be broadcasting accurate intelligence culled from the communications of the top echelon of the Russian government in order to spook Moscow with how much they know.


This faulty prediction was a big error on my part, because it constituted falling back on a liberal critique of government. As anarchists, we don’t oppose governments because they lie, we oppose them because their very existence is an assault on all of us, and whether they lie or tell the truth, it is based on a calculation of their interests to maintain power over everyone else.


So, for now, the US gets to be the poster boy of honesty, decency, and peace; a huge change from its media image since the end of the Clinton days.


However, the new gleam on the much tarnished brand of the US government can do nothing to reverse the most important result of this war, in geopolitical terms. And that is the acceleration of the emergence of a multipolar world in which no one state exercises hegemony. Because of their need to still access Russian energy and pay for those transactions, and their awareness of their own potential vulnerability to sanctions, countries like China and India are quickly developing alternatives to Europe’s SWIFT system for bank transactions and alternatives to stock and commodity markets that rely on the dollar as the common currency.


Even if Russia loses this war or becomes a total pariah, the US is quickly losing its perch as the world superpower. This is in large part because US hegemony was never based primarily on its military power, though that was a necessary ingredient. But raw US military power was only ever enough to maintain allied/occupied governments in western Europe and Latin America. Washington’s force projection was hit or miss everywhere else in the world, as demonstrated in China, Korea, Vietnam, Zimbabwe, Afghanistan…


It is the fact that nearly all economic activity in the world, even in so-called socialist countries, has relied directly or indirectly on its currency and its financial institutions, that made the US the most powerful country in the world. And that reality is coming to an end. It was already ending, as I pointed out in Diagnostic of the Future, but all the sanctions around the ongoing war are speeding things up rather than slowing them down. The US is using its most potent economic weapons at a time when it is in a state of diplomatic tensions with many of the world’s mid-range powers, motivating those governments to create effective defenses even as the bulk of world economic activity shifts out of NAFTA and the EU.


As far as capitalist winners, this war gives us another tragic reminder of how renewable energy and fossil fuel energy are by no means opposed; on the contrary, they have always grown in tandem and what is good for one tends to be good for the other.

Case in point, Europe is being forced to realize how dangerous its high dependence on Russian gas is. Fully half of Europe’s gas comes from Russia, and between a fifth and a quarter of Europe’s total electricity generation comes from gas, with many homes also heating themselves and supplying cooking stoves with gas.

The response of European governments has been to simultaneously accelerate the shift to renewable energy, with a 40% reduction of fossil fuel use by 2030, while also increasing their importation of gas to be stored before next winter and pushing for new pipelines to bring non-Russian gas into Europe. These new pipelines would probably carry north African gas through Spain. Incidentally, the Russian military, through the Wagner Group, is engaged in several bloody wars in northern Africa, as is France, one of the longtime colonizers of the region.

And though the US remains the world’s number one oil producer and is not dependent on Russian production, it is dependent on a world economy that relies on cheap fuel and can be thrown into a tail spin by a sudden rise in prices. We have yet to see if the war in Ukraine will have any effect increasing the push for renewable energy, given how backwards the US is in both politics and infrastructure, but we have already seen how Washington is lobbying OPEC to increase oil output.
 
Fewer riot cops (OMON) in Russian cities to bust people‘s heads, that might have consequences.



Someone kindly provided a translation of the video commentary:

Look, friends, a destroyed column of Russians. It's huge, I don't know how many..
here is ginger San'ka waving hello to eveyone. all kinds of vehicles, and look
what they've brought to conquer Ukraine. They thought we were some kind of
hohols, but we ended up being Cossacks. Ukrainian Cossacks who smashed
these occupiers. Look, they came with helmets, with shields, they thought it
would work on us like it does in Moscow, in St. Petersburg, or any other Russian
city, but it turned out differently.
• OMON didn't reach us, friends, OMON was stopped at the approach to Kharkiv
and stayed here for ever and ever. So, friends, keep yourself and your loved ones
safe. Do not succumb to deceitful manipulation. These guys were smashed, but
others reached Kharkiv and shelled civilian areas, did a lot of damage to Kharkiv.
There are many killed, and thousands, if not tens of thousands of crippled souls.
Here in the snow, I won't be filming any closer, you can see fingers - this person
came to de-nazify Ukraine, and now he's resting in the snow. Good thing it's cold
now, otherwise he would smell badly.
So friends, this is our life. We are only aiming for victory, in any case we'll stand
till the end. No one, no one will disperse us, our demonstrations. We will
demonstrate our people's will whenever we feel like it, and no one will dare to
come here with those shields, helmets, and impose their dictatorship upon us. All
will be Ukraine, friends, we are holding, glory to Ukraine, and help the army and
volunteers.

In Vladimir there’s just been a large number of funerals for senior riot police people. Insert Windsor Davis meme here.
 
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