What Now for the BNP?

[malatesta32]

with a bit of deductive reasoning we can look at who is likely to fill the vaccuum:
NF - despite being a brand they are very keen on keeping it a white only do so will face problems that the bnp faced. its tenner to join and is only strong in a few places. they dont have any money but got a boost from the infidels link up.
british peoples party - which is redwatch watmough and his horriendous wife have just kicked out david 'grizzly' jones who was their most prominentr candidate in todmorden.
English democrats which is eddie ‘rights for whites’ are pushing a more moderate line, culutral nationalism rather than racial nationalism (or summat).
British fluffy freedom have just linked up with the EDL which may get them votes and attention cos of mr. Tommy but he has such a BAD public image.
England first is diamond jim dowsons latest front and far too wee.
Which leaves ukip who are less tarnished with the overt racism of either the bnp or nf and have cannily excluded bnp-ers to avoid negative publicity. However they stil come across as maverick tories and in working class areas that is not too appealing.
So 1 vaccuum requires far right party of FN, golden dawn to fill it ASAP. Any other takers? i saw something called national liberals yesterday but there are always far right grupuscules popping up and dying out. we shall see ...

 

[malatesta32]

oh england first party have got mark 'cash grab' cotterill on board who just polled a handful of ticks in preston. he has baggage re: his jaunt to america and fleecing that fascist magazine. rather amusing.

 

[chilango]

AFAIK the "National Liberals" are some sort of post-Third Way hobby group of Harrington or someone.

 

[malatesta32]

ah, national liberal party is patrick harirngton. should be as succesful as his made up union solidarity.

 

[bignose1]

oh england first party have got mark 'cash grab' cotterill on board who just polled a handful of ticks in preston. he has baggage re: his jaunt to america and fleecing that fascist magazine. rather amusing.

And he's state

 

[bignose1]

And he's state

Before any one says 'pot, black, kettle'

 

[malatesta32]

well cotterill has very little credibility on the far right anyway. brons may have joined the fluffies according to shirtfront. how ye doing big man?

 

[bignose1]

well cotterill has very little credibility on the far right anyway. brons may have joined the fluffies according to shirtfront. how ye doing big man?

Alrightish fellah...Ill send yer a PM later on. Looking forward to yer finishing your book.!!

 

[The Black Hand]

It used to be the Black Hand who routinely delivered evidence of such slightly bi-polar wishful thinking, but he to be fair did fall off the back of bus a couple of years previously, or so the story goes. You, on the other hand, as far as I know, have no excuse for repeatedly posting (while typically ducking any awkard questions) the same politically illiterate twaddle.

Lazy Joe Lazy. The facts are that the movement is fekked; you, the labour party, anarchists, trade unions, everybody. You're all scrambling, some offereing slightly better initiatives, and politics than others. Nobody has the right to claim leadership, nobodies analysis and practice means much. Rather it is those seeking unity and practice of and within the new class compositions that have the best politics IMHO.

As for the bus, i find your post bizarre. If you want a serious exchange of politics rather than tittle tattle twaddle on U75 I would love to see it.

 

[The Black Hand]

There are many stories about The Black Hand, and to be honest, do we care whether they're true, as long as they're entertaining?

Fekking ridiculous. We can all spread meaningless irrelevant shite and make stuff up as the ultra left do on U75, it fekking pathetic tho.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Fekking ridiculous.

Are you claiming there aren't loads of stories about you doing the rounds?

We can all spread meaningless irrelevant shite and make stuff up as the ultra left do on U75, it fekking pathetic tho.

Yep, it's "pathetic" having a sense of humour and ribbing a self-important blow-hard, I agree.

 

[The39thStep]

with a bit of deductive reasoning we can look at who is likely to fill the vaccuum:
NF - despite being a brand they are very keen on keeping it a white only do so will face problems that the bnp faced. its tenner to join and is only strong in a few places. they dont have any money but got a boost from the infidels link up.
british peoples party - which is redwatch watmough and his horriendous wife have just kicked out david 'grizzly' jones who was their most prominentr candidate in todmorden.
English democrats which is eddie ‘rights for whites’ are pushing a more moderate line, culutral nationalism rather than racial nationalism (or summat).
British fluffy freedom have just linked up with the EDL which may get them votes and attention cos of mr. Tommy but he has such a BAD public image.
England first is diamond jim dowsons latest front and far too wee.
Which leaves ukip who are less tarnished with the overt racism of either the bnp or nf and have cannily excluded bnp-ers to avoid negative publicity. However they stil come across as maverick tories and in working class areas that is not too appealing.
So 1 vaccuum requires far right party of FN, golden dawn to fill it ASAP. Any other takers? i saw something called national liberals yesterday but there are always far right grupuscules popping up and dying out. we shall see ...

The problem for them all is that Labour are mopping up any opposition to the Coalition bar UKIP .Although the BNP vote held up a tad better than the Lib Dems in some places .Conceivably to respond to the UKIP threat Cameron will be under pressure to shift a bit but his room for manoeuvre is limited precisely due to the coalition.

In the same way as the left periodically look at joining forces it could be that there is some form of a non aggression pact between the far right especially for the Euros, next year is a fallow election year for Councils in many places. Expect far right candidates in the Police and Crime Commissioner elections in November and more activity over the CSE trial at Liverpool and the upcoming ones .

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I think the police commisioner elections will be the next big push for various rightwing groups - however it will be independents who do best outside the big 2 parties (almost said big 3 but lol)

 

[Red Storm]

As Matthew Goodwin put it in the Guardian - 'The question that remains is what will emerge to fill the vacuum?'

FtV document has even been posted on Sabcat: http://sabcat.com/filling-the-vacuum/

 

[malatesta32]

steps mainly agree feller but the idea of unity on the far right - what with all the fallouts and emerging diffs between cultural and racial nationalism and ukips reluctance to take on ex-bnp i cannae see it. ukip will benefit in the short term but you never know with those unpredictable nazis!!!

 

[Nigel Irritable]

the problems of the left do not emanate from within the left itself then, in your opinion?

That's not what I said at all. The problems of the left have both external and internal causes, but an activist base dominated by incompetents, oddballs, fantasists, drunks, mentalists, criminals and idiots isn't really one of those internal causes in the same way it is for the far right. Those people exist on the far left, and in the mainstream parties, but they don't set the tone in the same way.

The BNP did embark on building the middle management cadre that you describe. A series of conferences, training and development took place at the same they were purging and banning some of the 'nutzis'.

Now that is interesting, if only because it indicates that their top brass were also of the view that they had serious problems in terms of human material and were intent on doing something about it.

 

[love detective]

That's not what I said at all. The problems of the left have both external and internal causes

If the left, as currently constituted, is as irrelevant as it clearly appears to be today, during the deepest period of recession /depression /downturn /austerity /declining real wages in over 100 years - then to me that suggests the problems of the left are due more to internal, than external, causes.

We can however just blame it on external causes (the times not right etc..) and continue to do exactly the same thing with exactly the same type of people using the exact same thinking for the next 25 years, in a manner that Einstein suggested was definitional of a particular state of mind

incompetents, oddballs, fantasists, drunks, mentalists, criminals and idiots

this really does sum up a significant proportion of the left/anarchism to me

 

[Nigel Irritable]

If the left, as currently constituted, is as irrelevant as it clearly appears to be today, during the deepest period of recession /depression /downturn /austerity /declining real wages in over 100 years - then to me that suggests the problems of the left are due more to internal, than external, causes.

This leaves out what went before the present crisis: Twenty five years of the retreat of the workers movement, politically, organisationally, industrially, ideologically. And that's something which had rather bigger causes than the personal failings of the relatively small number of far left activists.

I do actually agree that there are internal causes too, but you simply aren't seeing the scale of the problem here.

this really does sum of a significant proportion of the left/anarchism to me

I wasn't really including anarchism in this discussion. You may well be right that the broad anarchist scene is like that. But the Trotskyist end of things isn't really. And I suspect that the more organised end of anarchism, as opposed to the anarchoid milieu, probably isn't either. Come to think of it, the Spartoid end of Trotskyism, might fit the bill too, but they are numerically insignificant even by the small standards of the far left.

I think I've been in six or seven branches of far left organisations in Ireland and Britain, and with one exception they've been dominated by pretty capable people. That exception was in the SSP in Glasgow - and that particular SSP branch was famous in the Glasgow SSP for containing a bizarre number of lunatics and for being unrepresentative in that regard. Some of those other branches had a punter or two who fit the description, but they never, ever, set the tone.

 

[Fedayn]

I think I've been in six or seven branches of far left organisations in Ireland and Britain, and with one exception they've been dominated by pretty capable people. That exception was in the SSP in Glasgow - and that particular SSP branch was famous in the Glasgow SSP for containing a bizarre number of lunatics and for being unrepresentative in that regard. Some of those other branches had a punter or two who fit the description, but they never, ever, set the tone.

Really? You're obsession with the SSP is rather pathetic.....

 

[Fedayn]

Back to the OP...

Some interesting remarks seem to have been uttered by Griffin. Talk of "London is now an occupied zone" BNP must "lead the resistance", "inner city immigrant fast breeders" and "flying columns" all being thrown into his remarks.....

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Really? You're obsession with the SSP is rather pathetic.....

What?

I think you've misread my post there. My SSP branch had a lot of nutcases in it. Really it did. But my point was that this was not at all reflective of the SSP as a whole. SSP branches were generally run by competent, sane, people.

You might remember some of the people I was talking about if you think back a bit.

 

[Fedayn]

What?

I think you've misread my post there. My SSP branch had a lot of nutcases in it. Really it did. But my point was that this was not at all reflective of the SSP as a whole.

One less when you left, so every bit helps.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

What?

I think you've misread my post there. My SSP branch had a lot of nutcases in it. Really it did. But my point was that this was not at all reflective of the SSP as a whole. SSP branches were generally run by competent, sane, people.

You might remember some of the people I'm talking about.

Mr Wallis?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

One less when you left, so every bit helps.

Christ.

You do know the branch I'm talking about and who was in it don't you?

 

[Fedayn]

Mr Wallis?

Dunno where he was a member SSP wise as he was an inpatient in Manchester then ended up as an in-patient in a hospital a mile or so from me. He was, might I add, a member of a CWI/SP branch in Manchester where one of the active members kept a bell jar under his bed that he regularly put his deposits in.... So if we're pointing fingers...

 

[Fedayn]

Christ.

You do know the branch I'm talking about and who was in it don't you?

Aye, you were described to me as one of the more bizarre members, but hey..... Btw there's a psychiatrist who was in that branch, i'll be sure to ask his opinion when I see him next.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Aye, you were described to me as one of the more bizarre members, but hey..... Btw there's a psychiatrist who was in that branch, i'll be sure to ask his opinion when I see him next.

There were two pretty reasonable Swaps and about three pretty normal ISMish people and after that it was a total fucking zoo.

There were people from Workers Unity, Glasgow Marxist Forum or whatever it was called, someone who'd been in the RCP and still had most of their politics, and people from other one and two man groups. And lots of them were clearly... peculiar.

As for bizarre, did your friend think that I was more or less so than a 50 year old man who still dresses up as part of a subculture from his youth?

 

[Fedayn]

I know the branch well, there was people I wouldn't socialise with, like plenty of other branches of the SSP and when I was in the CWI.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Was that old American bloke with the beard in that branch the one from the IWW? A total loon that one.

 

[Fedayn]

Was that old American bloke with the beard in that branch the one from the IWW? A total loon that one.

He's in, what was, a different branch, I hardly know him. but he's not my cup of tea.