what no thread about occupy oakland

[dylans]

The Washington Post's photograph used to illustrate its story on Oakland police violence

 

[teqniq]

@dylans. Fixed for you.

 

[sihhi]

In New Years 2009 police shot dead unarmed black Oscar Grant in West Oakland. The police officer who murdered him claimed 'I didn't know I had a gun in my hand'. Expect similar here.

 

[AKA pseudonym]

So, anyone else having trouble accessing oaklandpolice.com ?

 

[AKA pseudonym]

In New Years 2009 police shot dead unarmed black Oscar Grant in West Oakland. The police officer who murdered him claimed 'I didn't know I had a gun in my hand'. Expect similar here.

dunno.. there is an ongoing campaign for justice.. that unfortunate recent incidents have given rise to greater support.....

 

[audiotech]

Senior writer and editor for Alternet.org gives a detailed account of the second night of violence in the Occupy Oakland movement - described as "patriots".The debate with the 'one liberal and two conservatives' is fun, as is the apparent "War on Halloween", that 'offends immigrants', being propagated by 'Fox' (nice syrup and plastic smiles). It get's better, with a contribution from one dork asserting that the 'Communist Manifesto' is a 'mainstay of a progressive income tax.'

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I am getting just slightly irritated by the military fetishism I'm seeing around Scott Olsen being hospitalised on the net. If I see one more liberal blogger say "oh you don't fuck with the Marines! war hero! defending our country! semper fi!" I may pop.

 

[audiotech]

What do you expect?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

What do you expect?

Tbh it's exactly what I expected - the one thing you have to be careful about in American politics is accidentally insulting, let alone crippling, a vet in a public way. (Not because of the vets themselves, they never do anything, complete weak sauce, but because the level of military fetishism that's been encouraged means you lose mainstream PR.)

It's still irritating though.

 

[elbows]

Not quite as befuddling as 'the army and the people are one' stuff in Egypt though, phenomenon that made the whole thing surreal long before the counter-revolutionary camels arrived.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Not quite as befuddling as 'the army and the people are one' stuff in Egypt though, phenomenon that made the whole thing surreal long before the counter-revolutionary camels arrived.

That makes more sense when you look at the role the military has in Egyptian economy and society, though (well, at least it did to me, granted that I don't have any direct experience and what I read could have been distorted). More than the US version anyway. That really is just fetishism.

 

[dennisr]

I am getting just slightly irritated by the military fetishism I'm seeing around Scott Olsen being hospitalised on the net. If I see one more liberal blogger say "oh you don't fuck with the Marines! war hero! defending our country! semper fi!" I may pop.

I know what you mean - some fella gave a reasonable answer on another thread and place: "People are more pissed because at one point in his life, this man wrote the people of the United States a blank check, for any amount up to and including his life, and this is what he gets in return. That's why its a big deal that they did this to one of our Marines."

Here's some more: "Next time I hear about how vets fight to protect our rights, I'll remember the one they shot in the head for actually exercising them." "This is a very good way to put it. Signing up for the military means placing an AWFUL LOT of trust in the US. This is how that trust is abused." "You are on to a truth here. This shouldn't be about fellow marines, this should be about fellow humans. But if this is what it takes to light a fire under reluctant asses, so be it."

I guess it exposes something bigger?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I know what you mean - some fella gave a reasonable answer on another thread and place: "People are more pissed because at one point in his life, this man wrote the people of the United States a blank check, for any amount up to and including his life, and this is what he gets in return. That's why its a big deal that they did this to one of our Marines."

I guess it exposes something bigger?

Oh yes, "wrote a blank check", that's another one that gets on my nerves. But it's just the whole assumption that up until this point (whichever point that is - whenever it happens that a soldier gets fucked over, and they're always getting fucked over) there was a proper Heinlein social contract where they were our heroes justly rewarded as superior moral beings, and now, shock, it's being breached! And that's such a sin!

 

[DotCommunist]

short memories if they can't recall the way viet nam conscripts were treated during and after.

 

[AKA pseudonym]

imo the reason what may be viewed as 'fetishism' is because we in Europe dont really grasp the significance... the returning vets from Vietnam turned the tide in 'popular opinion' regarding a very under reported slaughterhouse...
I have found that within raising awareness of homeless issues, for example, the fact that 1 in 3 rough sleepers in the USA are ex-vets resonates with the 'good ol' US of A' very strongly....

 

[FridgeMagnet]

imo the reason what may be viewed as 'fetishism' is because we in Europe dont really grasp the significance...

No, it really is fetishism. It's scary. It was really ramped up during the Iraq invasion.

 

[audiotech]

A message from our sponsors.

 

[AKA pseudonym]

No, it really is fetishism. It's scary. It was really ramped up during the Iraq invasion.

tbh: im not understanding your position as yet... perhaps to prevent derailment this could be a seperate discussion?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

tbh: im not understanding your position as yet... perhaps to prevent derailment this could be a seperate discussion?

I don't think it's doing any huge harm here, though it can always be moved. What parts could I explain better?

 

[audiotech]

Fuck fear!

 

[AKA pseudonym]

I don't think it's doing any huge harm here, though it can always be moved. What parts could I explain better?

probably the conception of the good ol' boys fighting for freedom.. which faux news propagates and the developing understanding ( to be encouraged) that mainstream US tv dinner news is BS...

eta: just dawned on me as an Irish person... prob negative 'nationalism'
I dunno
just involved with too many groups, 'threads', where the key object gets misty!!!

*as you were!

 

[ferrelhadley]

imo the reason what may be viewed as 'fetishism' is because we in Europe dont really grasp the significance... the returning vets from Vietnam turned the tide in 'popular opinion' regarding a very under reported slaughterhouse...
I have found that within raising awareness of homeless issues, for example, the fact that 1 in 3 rough sleepers in the USA are ex-vets resonates with the 'good ol' US of A' very strongly....

Also a lot of young US kids go into the forces to pay for college. There is a lot more ex service people in general society than the UK.

I have a number of 21 million veterans.
http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/facts_for_features_special_editions/cb10-ff21.html

That is a lot of public opinion.

 

[AKA pseudonym]

Washington Post defends publishing odd Occupy Oakland photo featuring cop petting kitten

 

[dilute micro]

No, it really is fetishism. It's scary. It was really ramped up during the Iraq invasion.

It was ramped up during the Iraq invasion? Relative to what?

I suppose there was a baseline.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I suppose it's just my personal perception, but I certainly think there was a deliberate increase in militaristic propaganda over the lead-up to the war and the war itself compared to just before it. Not really very surprising of course.

 

[audiotech]

Apparently, "3000 taking the park back" in Oatland, but this is not confirmed?

 

[dilute micro]

I suppose it's just my personal perception, but I certainly think there was a deliberate increase in militaristic propaganda over the lead-up to the war and the war itself compared to just before it. Not really very surprising of course.

I agree but I do think the military is revered even when there isn't a war. Politicians know they have an effective device for winning instant support.

 

[dennisr]

I agree but I do think the military is revered even when there isn't a war. Politicians know they have an effective device for winning instant support.

yep, and I think this is an example of that device back-firing badly on its creators. A lot of comments I have seen in the US - from opponents of US foriegn policy and militarization propaganda have said something along the lines of 'we have learnt from the Vietnam anti-war movement' - they are careful to say they are opposed to the war not the individual soldiers. I think that's a clever approach to winning the anti-war arguement especially when the pro-war faction is using the binary approach of 'anti-war = anti-our boys = anti-american".

Yep, soldier boys / economic conscripts have bought into the big lie and their slow turnaround is a confused and contradictory one. I guess its hard to admit you were used and that your dead, damaged and limbless mates had completely wasted their lives for the interests of suited oil executives. So turning on its head the - in reality empty - pledge of "defending your country against enemies - external and domestic" is a a way of rationalising it. It may well be riven with contradictions and a certain hypocrisy but its a powerful break being made by an important section of society - a section usually relied upon to defend the rich and powerful. They are no longer such reliable suckers. I think its a very significant change in the balance between the haves and the have-nots.

 

[AKA pseudonym]

So, anyone else having trouble accessing oaklandpolice.com ?

Anonymous downs Oakland police site after violence

The hacktivist group Anonymous is making good on its promise of digital retaliation against the Oakland Police Department for the force it used against protesters this week.

A distributed denial-of-service attack against the department's website -- www.oaklandpolice.com -- is underway, and the website currently is unreachable.

In addition, members of the collective have begun releasing information about Oakland police officers, and the call is out for additional help.

"The time has come to retaliate against Oakland police via all non-violent means, beginning with 'doxing' of individual officers and particularly higher-ups involved in the department's conduct of late," read an Anonymous statement, posted to Pastebin.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

OH MY GOD A WEBSITE WAS DOWN for a bit. Freedom's a comin'.