What is so wrong with looking after 'ones own'??

[nino_savatte]

"there is much in what the left does that gives the bnp propaganda"

I don't see much difference there.

 

[nino_savatte]

nino i am arguing that to progress to a socialist future ( i fall roughly into anarcho-communist camp in what socilaist future i want) we need FIRST to start to rebuild w/c communities ( and unions) .. building strong communities as opposed to building the party you could say

my opposition to the socalled left, is that in fact it is a middle class liberal 'left' ( which will do little in the long run for the w/c ) , and that it can NOT acheive what w/c people need

why? .. for 2 reasons .. one it puts idealistic and unacheivable propaganda before material work in communities and that that prop is often alienating to w/c people

and two, it's foundation in leninism is actually a middle class attribute which is about really about producing yet another bourgois revolution, which i think explains why they are little interested in communities

1905

So, in your view, the "Left" should only consist of elements of the w/c and no one else? Then there are those people who clearly come from middle class backgrounds who, for whatever reason, aren't working in cushy high paid jobs and who are socialists. What is working class?

 

[durruti02]

Based in the unions, no? Or am I getting confused.

I still don't see the connection to 'building strong communities' or whatever - maybe I'm just some weird antipodean but it sounds a bit suspect to me.

as kropotkin says it was the mass non payment campaign based on strong community organisation that did it .. union relevance was minimal and marchs have been disregarded before and since

 

[durruti02]

He who pisseth into the wind wetteth his shirt.

whatever

 

[durruti02]

So, in your view, the "Left" should only consist of elements of the w/c and no one else? Then there are those people who clearly come from middle class backgrounds who, for whatever reason, aren't working in cushy high paid jobs and who are socialists. What is working class?

essentially yes but that is a differrent thread

1964

 

[nino_savatte]

essentially yes but that is a differrent thread

1964

So, those people who are "working class" and who draw down wages comparable to city types and own their own homes are what? Working class?

They may have w/c roots but they have bourgeois aspirations...that is to say, they have become embourgeoiused. The terms "working class" and "middle class" are unhelpful because they do not recognise social and economic mobility. Though it is clear that the vast majority of the so-called middle class will neverl reach the dizzy heights of the ruling classes.

Wtf does "1964" have to do with anything?

 

[becky p]

Whereas all you do is act smug about 40 times a week, while never actually bothering to contribute to the debate in a meaningful way.

If you and nino actually want a meaningful debate perhaps you would ike to stick to some ground rules?
When people raise issues you struggle with both of you IMO are guilty of totally overreacting.
I think the points durruti and knotted have been making are worth debating constuctivelly. And posters like Jessie dog and baldwin have interesting points to add.
Wild accusations of racism bring the debate down to a puerile level.

 

[nino_savatte]

This message is hidden because becky p is on your ignore list.

Now do one.

 

[durruti02]

So, those people who are "working class" and who draw down wages comparable to city types and own their own homes are what? Working class?

They may have w/c roots but they have bourgeois aspirations...that is to say, they have become embourgeoiused. The terms "working class" and "middle class" are unhelpful because they do not recognise social and economic mobility. Though it is clear that the vast majority of the so-called middle class will neverl reach the dizzy heights of the ruling classes.

Wtf does "1964" have to do with anything?

1964? its internal BNP code ..

 

[nino_savatte]

1964? its internal BNP code ..

You what? You really are pretty fucking thick, aren't you?