We're running out of fish.

[Herbsman.]

Apart from the problem of unemployed fish farmers

 

[Herbsman.]

Sorry, I meant fishermen, not fish farmers

 

[editor]

Apart from the problem of unemployed fish farmers

It'll be an even bigger problem for them if there's no fish left at all.

 

[tarannau]

Not really. A lot of farmed fish is fed on fish, usually bycatch from fishing fleets. You need to process something like 7 times the weight of salmon in fish pellets to maintain farmed salmon, the feed made from 'wild' fishes.

 

[editor]

Not really. A lot of farmed fish is fed on fish, usually bycatch from fishing fleets. You need to process something like 7 times the weight of salmon in fish pellets to maintain farmed salmon, the feed made from 'wild' fishes.

Fish farming can have all sorts of negative effects on the local environment.

Salmon farming can have a variety of effects on the marine environment, through the
discharge of nutrients, solid waste, medicines and
antifoulants.

...Waste feed and faeces from fish farms can collect on the
seabed under fish cages. This increase in organic matter
has an impact on this benthic environment, affecting the
nature and chemistry of sediments, and can reduce the
diversity of animals living there.

http://www.marlab.ac.uk/Uploads/Documents/AE01EnvironImpact.pdf [PDF file]

 

[tarannau]

Apart from that, farmed fish generally tastes crap. Farmed salmon is the equivalent of battery reared chicken - a bland, dull meat that has few redeeming qualities in the main.

Mmm, lice infested fish swimming in shit-filled tanks. Oh, and dyed by colour chart and feed to reach that appropriate pink colour. Yum.

 

[teuchter]

The other problem with fish farming is that it creates conditions where disease can easily develop, which can then spread to the wild population.

 

[teuchter]

do not fuck with nature or you die.

A bit simplistic, given that's exactly what we've been doing for about the last 10,000 years and is what has made us the most dominant species on the planet...

 

[Corax]

Intensive fish farming?

You saw what happened with pigs: Fish flu...

 

[Yossarian]

Just eat less fish. Problem solved.

Vegetable farming comes with a massive environmental cost as well. If people want to continue eating fish for longer than the next few decades, I reckon farming plant-eating species like tilapia is the way forward.

 

[Roadkill]

Not really. A lot of farmed fish is fed on fish, usually bycatch from fishing fleets. You need to process something like 7 times the weight of salmon in fish pellets to maintain farmed salmon, the feed made from 'wild' fishes.

This. Also, as ed points out there are various environmental problems associated with it.

Fish farming isn't the solution in most cases.

 

[DJ Squelch]

This reminds me:

My dad (who is into marine conservation and all that) sent me the link for this film:

http://endoftheline.com/

Went to see this tonight with a Q&A session afterwards. Was quite good, I would of liked to have heard a few more voices from people who disagree with some of the points raised to see what their argument is. There was one scene when a bloke said he thought the figures for falling fish stocks were nonsense but they didn't explain why. Thought the bit about Mitsubishi hoarding stocks of frozen bluefin tuna so they flog it at great profit when the price soars once it becomes extinct was interesting.

 

[Roadkill]

Went to see this tonight with a Q&A session afterwards. Was quite good, I would of liked to have heard a few more voices from people who disagree with some of the points raised to see what their argument is. There was one scene when a bloke said he thought the figures for falling fish stocks were nonsense but they didn't explain why.

There are people within and outside the industry - and not only those with a direct financial incentive to say so - who think that Clover is exaggerating the situation somewhat. They might have a point: he is a journalist, after all, although he's very well informed.

There is ongoing debate about about how bad it is, mainly because assessing it depends on models of fish stocks that are pretty speculative and work with inherently imprecise data. But I doubt there are many reputable fisheries scientists who don't think overfishing is a very serious problem and don't expect some stocks to become commercially extinct in the foreseeable future.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Could we grow it vats? They could then cut it out so its fish shaped. No annoying bones either!

Not that it bothers me as I don't really eat much fish, but if they could do the same for steak, that would be ace.

 

[blueplume]

Kill the pescetarians. And the Japanese.

And the seals

 

[teuchter]

Went to see this tonight with a Q&A session afterwards. Was quite good, I would of liked to have heard a few more voices from people who disagree with some of the points raised to see what their argument is. There was one scene when a bloke said he thought the figures for falling fish stocks were nonsense but they didn't explain why. Thought the bit about Mitsubishi hoarding stocks of frozen bluefin tuna so they flog it at great profit when the price soars once it becomes extinct was interesting.

I went along too. I'm glad I did; I feel a bit better informed now than I did before, although I realise the film could be accused of being a little one sided. It made a pretty convincing case for taking things seriously, though.

There are a few things that it touched upon that would have been interesting to know more about. Like the Mitsubishi thing.

It was good to have the Q&A session with the Greenpeace guy afterwards too.

I'd recommend that anyone interested in the subject should see the film. Anyone uninterested too, perhaps: it might change your mind. Apparently it will be shown on the telly in due course.

 

[pk]

Three words:

Spaniards.

Cunts.

Armada.

 

[DJ Squelch]

I wouldn't mind seeing this 2009 docu. aswell

http://www.aseachange.net/about.html

Imagine a world without fish: It seems inconceivable. But top scientists warn that such a catastrophe may in fact play out in coming generations unless widespread awareness is raised to stop ocean acidification.

A Sea Change will focus public attention on this urgent but little-known crisis. It follows retired educator and concerned grandfather Sven Huseby back to stunning ancestral sites (Norway, Alaska the Pacific Northwest) where he finds cutting-edge ocean research underway. His journey of self-discovery brings adventure, surprise and revelation to the hard science of acidification.

Hundreds of millions of people rely on the bounty of the seas for their survival and their cultural identity. Yet compared to terrestrial ecosystems, relatively little is known about our oceans.

What is conclusively known now is that the pH balance of the oceans has changed dramatically since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution: A 30% increase in acidification. With near unanimity, scientists now agree that the burning of fossil fuels is fundamentally reshaping ocean chemistry. Experts predict that over the next century, steady increases in carbon dioxide emissions and the continued rise in the acidity of the oceans will cause most of the world's fisheries to experience a total bottom-up collapse--a state that could last for millions of years.

Through the mass medium of film, A Sea Change will broaden the discussion about the dramatic changes we are seeing in the chemistry of the oceans, and convey the urgent threat those changes pose to our survival.

Good to see The End Of the Line getting some media attention today and causing some positive action from companys

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8090277.stm

 

[Roadkill]

Good to see The End Of the Line getting some media attention today and causing some positive action from companys

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8090277.stm

This is good, but it's too little and too late.

I've not seen the film yet, but it's been known for several years that bluefin tuna are critically overfished. Clover says as much in his book, which was published nearly five years ago. It's depressing - although it's not surprising - that it takes a major film to make major buyers change their sources, and I just wonder how long the sudden bout of ethical behaviour on the part of Pret, M&S and the rest of them will last when the hype around the film dies away.

 

[DJ Squelch]

yes true, I imagine it's just a good bit of PR which won't hurt profits too badly for them but at least it's a start. Changing peoples habits in animal loving UK will be alot easier than in other parts of the world and probably won't have that much of an impact on numbers. What we really need is to pressure governments into setting up reserves and agreeing to lower quotas.

 

[david dissadent]

Ocean acidification will fuck it all up anyway.

We might as well fill our belly's while we can! Blue fin steak anyone?

An interesting article that hints that the early signs of acidification may be turning up. Seattle Times.

Other explanations are possible though.

 

[Yossarian]

According to the latest figures, we ate all the bluefin tuna and there's a 0.1% chance of them bouncing back.

APNewsBreak: Sushi Alert: Grim Outlook for Bluefin Tuna

 

[Pickman's model]

Johann Hari: Could we be the generation that runs out of fish?

The science is pretty accurate on this one.

i'd like to think so. but seeing johann hari on the byline lowers my confidence in the veracity of any article.

 

[likesfish]

While if we created an aritifical upwelling from the oceon floor say using an OPTEC you get plankton that smaller fish would eat that could then be fed to bigger fish.
Extra fish no eco disaster.

Engeering wise its doable


But the money needed is stupid though

 

[dessiato]

In the late 1980s I wrote a paper on this. I was ridiculed and told that the fish in British waters were for British trawlermen to take as much as they wanted. After 10 years telling people this would happen I stopped. I'm really sorry that I'm right in this case.

I only need to look at my family to see the effects. We had 5 boats, for at least 15 years no one has been in commercial fishing. The boats for various reasons are gone. At least 50% of family members relied directly on the fishing industry. Apart from a cousin who has a pleasure boat no one has any fishing connection.

It's sad on many levels. It was foreseeable. There doesn't seem to be sufficient will to do enough about trying to resolve thinks.

 

[trabuquera]

(liked for tru fax and personal experience, not for the death of fishing or fish, obviously)

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Not really. A lot of farmed fish is fed on fish, usually bycatch from fishing fleets. You need to process something like 7 times the weight of salmon in fish pellets to maintain farmed salmon, the feed made from 'wild' fishes.

Not only that, but a lot of livestock on land is fed on fish. We'll have to stop eating pigs and chickens too, at least in the quantities that we do now. There's some evidence that meat consumption is going down in the US, but the rest of the world shows every sign of taking up the slack.

 

[Pickman's model]

Three words:

Spaniards.

Cunts.

Armada.

one word: twat

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Could we grow it vats? They could then cut it out so its fish shaped. No annoying bones either!

Not that it bothers me as I don't really eat much fish, but if they could do the same for steak, that would be ace.

Sure. They can grow meat in vats now. The cost is currently prohibitive, though. I don't see why we should bother, when we have so many cheaper alternatives now.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Sure. They can grow meat in vats now. The cost is currently prohibitive, though. I don't see why we should bother, when we have so many cheaper alternatives now.

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