90% of all big fish have been taken from the oceans

[ddraig]

Quick trashing of the thread, well done, give yourselves a pat on the back until next time

 

[editor]

Cutting back on cod and chips on a Friday will achieve nothing, the way society works must change, but it won't, so there you are.

Because no consumer boycott or pressure campaign ever worked, ever, so you'll just tell people to keep on as they are.

 

[Yossarian]

Simple solution is stop fishing in areas for concerted periods. unfortunately it’s all about the money

I’ve worked in an area (massive regional sea) since 2014 where they stopped all fishing in the areas we were working and paid off all the local fishing fleets which stayed in port tied up

7 years on and the sea in the area is absolutely heaving with fish. Not anecdotal, I’ve worked alongside Environmental consultants for the duration and it’s measured and incredible

and turtles, Dugongs, marine cetaceans, ospreys and other rare seabird breeds are all booming

economics/capitalism is all it is

Humans are greedy destructive shits and have already fucked the future

Yep, marine populations can rebound quickly in the right circumstances, so people shouldn't be too defeatist about the state of the oceans, terrible though it is - whales were seen as doomed in the 1960s, and "Save the Whales" was a cliche used to mock environmentalists in the '70s, but a lot of whale populations bounced back after stricter international efforts took effect in the '80s.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Because no consumer boycott or pressure campaign ever worked, ever, so you'll just tell people to keep on as they are.

What part of 'it is too late' do you not understand?

 

[editor]

Yep, marine populations can rebound quickly in the right circumstances, so people shouldn't be too defeatist about the state of the oceans, terrible though it is - whales were seen as doomed in the 1960s, and "Save the Whales" was a cliche used to mock environmentalists in the '70s, but a lot of whale populations bounced back after stricter international efforts took effect in the '80s.

And thank fuck those - often brave - environmentalists didn't just shrug their shoulders and shuffle off saying there's no point in doing anything anyway because blah blah blah.

 

[Athos]

Because no consumer boycott or pressure campaign ever worked, ever, so you'll just tell people to keep on as they are.

I can't think of any that have worked to the extent that would be required to save fish stocks, now. Can you?

 

[editor]

What part of 'it is too late' do you not understand?

That's your opinion, not fact. If people stopped stuffing their faces with fish without a care for the consequences, there's every chance that the marine life will return. But that goal will never be achieved if everyone adopted your attitude and just carried on as normal.

 

[Yossarian]

Since the government is already campaigning to rebrand fish species and get people to eat more British fish, maybe they should try to convince people that it's wrong to eat endangered species from the other side of the world when fish are being farmed in London warehouses.

Reuters | Breaking International News & Views

Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.

cn.reuters.com

 

[editor]

I can't think of any that have worked to the extent that would be required to save fish stocks, now. Can you?

I can think of plenty that have changed the practices of big companies or resulted in consumer-led lifestyle changes. Like the growth of vegetarianism and veganism, for example. And it's a start.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

That's your opinion, not fact. If people stopped stuffing their faces with fish without a care for the consequences, there's every chance that the marine life will return. But that goal will never be achieved if everyone adopted your attitude and just carried on as normal.

You can save all the creatures you like that is fine and grand, what you can't do is reverse global warming, it is too late and that will impact humans more than any other species as the way we live is unsustainable and will one day not too far away not be possible. But it is humans who are the problem whether eating meat or fish or jetting off around the globe with their bands on tour, we are all behaving in a selfish manner and as a result humans are now doomed to suffer catastrophically.

 

[Pickman's model]

That's your opinion, not fact. If people stopped stuffing their faces with fish without a care for the consequences, there's every chance that the marine life will return. But that goal will never be achieved if everyone adopted your attitude and just carried on as normal.

That wouldn't do anything for the warming oceans or for their acidification or for the plankton

 

[IC3D]

Our fishing fleet is artisanal compared to the two largest behemoths
UK 6 046
China 682 416
Indonesia 719 769

Fishing fleet

OECD.Stat enables users to search for and extract data from across OECD’s many databases.

stats.oecd.org

 

[editor]

jetting off around the globe with their bands on tour

I think I've had enough of your dirty little cheap ad hominems delivered from behind your cowardly shield of anonymity. You could drive a filthy 4x4 all around town every day and run a polluting factory, but you're nice and anonymous here so people can't bring it up to have cheap dig at you.

Please don't respond to any more of my posts because I can see you're only interested dragging the thread off topic and making it unpleasantly personal. Again.

 

[editor]

That wouldn't do anything for the warming oceans or for their acidification or for the plankton

What's your solution? Do nothing at all and don't even bother trying to raise awareness and perhaps using what little consumer power you may have to affect positive change?

 

[Pickman's model]

What's your solution? Do nothing at all and don't even bother trying to raise awareness and perhaps using what little consumer power you may have to affect positive change?

i use my limited consumer power to try to mitigate what's going on: but it is too late to avoid a horrible future

 

[NoXion]

You can save all the creatures you like that is fine and grand, what you can't do is reverse global warming

Not with that attitude you can't. But seriously, it is entirely reversible. Extract enough carbon from the air, and temperatures will start falling as the ability of the atmosphere to retain heat decreases.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I think I've had enough of your dirty little cheap ad hominems delivered from behind your cowardly shield of anonymity. You could drive a filthy 4x4 all around town every day and run a polluting factory, but you're nice and anonymous here so people can't bring it up to have cheap dig at you.

Please don't respond to any more of my posts because I can see you're only interested dragging the thread off topic and making it unpleasantly personal. Again.

Bollocks you touchy twat, the full quote which you have chosen to edit was: whether eating meat or fish or jetting off around the globe with their bands on tour , we are all behaving in a selfish manner

We were talking and so to show how we are all acting in a selfish manner I gave examples of how both you and I are acting in a selfish manner. That's how these things work.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Not with that attitude you can't. But seriously, it is entirely reversible. Extract enough carbon from the air, and temperatures will start falling as the ability of the atmosphere to retain heat decreases.

China and the USA deny that it is happening, so it's fucked.

 

[NoXion]

China and the USA deny that it is happening, so it's fucked.

No, they do not. China especially! For all their myriad faults, and for all that their citizens aren't the biggest per capita CO2 producers, the Chinese government takes climate change seriously. They have to, because otherwise their power at home will be threatened.

Even in the US, the global capital of climate denialism, renewable energy has been growing fast and is competitive with fossil fuels.

Commercial fusion is also getting closer, but even if it wasn't, fission technology is mature. So we don't have to depend on renewables alone.

 

[editor]

Bollocks you touchy twat, the full quote which you have chosen to edit was: whether eating meat or fish or jetting off around the globe with their bands on tour , we are all behaving in a selfish manner

We were talking and so to show how we are all acting in a selfish manner I gave examples of how both you and I are acting in a selfish manner. That's how these things work.

I've never claimed to live a life that is perfect, and I do my very best to lessen my impact whenever practically possible.

My band - seeing as you dredged it to score a cheap personal point - is one of the very few I know that almost never catches flights to tour Europe. Instead we get the far more expensive train to play shows.

There is no practical way to travel to the US but plane, but once we were there we travelled sometimes considerable distances in a small van instead of flying. So we did what we can.

I've never advocated banning flying but if there's a better alternative, I wish people would use it. Same applies to meat and fish. I do hope you'll keep my personal life out of it now, unless you'd like to level the playing field and reveal details about your work and personal flying habits.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

No, they do not. China especially! For all their myriad faults, and for all that their citizens aren't the biggest per capita CO2 producers, the Chinese government takes climate change seriously. They have to, because otherwise their power at home will be threatened.

Even in the US, the global capital of climate denialism, renewable energy has been growing fast and is competitive with fossil fuels.

Commercial fusion is also getting closer, but even if it wasn't, fission technology is mature. So we don't have to depend on renewables alone.

It's not enough though, to truly acknowledge it and reverse it we need to stop producing stuff. Cars, phones, computers, all the crap we fill our lives with, it needs to stop, but it won't and making power stations greener won't make a jot of difference. Global society has to change fundamentally, but it won't.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I've never claimed to live a life that is perfect, and I do my very best to lessen my impact whenever practically possible.

My band - seeing as you dredged it to score a cheap personal point - is one of the very few I know that almost never catches flights to tour Europe. Instead we get the far more expensive train to play shows.

There is no practical way to travel to the US but plane, but once we were there we travelled sometimes considerable distances in a small van instead of flying. So we did what we can.

I've never advocated banning flying but if there's a better alternative, I wish people would use it. Same applies to meat and fish. I do hope you'll keep my personal life out of it now, unless you'd like to level the playing field and reveal details about your work and personal flying habits.

My personal flying habits are well known, they are pictured on the transport thread, my job is also well known, as is the car I drive, none of us are perfect, some worse than others, me very much included, but as I keep repeating, unless global society fundamentally changes we are fucked, all the modelling shows that unequivocally.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Simple solution is stop fishing in areas for concerted periods. unfortunately it’s all about the money

I’ve worked in an area (massive regional sea) since 2014 where they stopped all fishing in the areas we were working and paid off all the local fishing fleets which stayed in port tied up

7 years on and the sea in the area is absolutely heaving with fish. Not anecdotal, I’ve worked alongside Environmental consultants for the duration and it’s measured and incredible

and turtles, Dugongs, marine cetaceans, ospreys and other rare seabird breeds are all booming

economics/capitalism is all it is

Humans are greedy destructive shits and have already fucked the future

This is key I think, you wouldn't farm a field over and over again every year without it collapsing and we can't do the same with the sea.

Big parts of the sea need to left fallow every couple of years or it's never going to recover.

 

[editor]

My personal flying habits are well known, they are pictured on the transport thread, my job is also well known, as is the car I drive, none of us are perfect, some worse than others, me very much included, but as I keep repeating, unless global society fundamentally changes we are fucked, all the modelling shows that unequivocally.

So why go out of your way to single out the (rare) times I have to travel by plane for my work? What reaction where you hoping to achieve? And what's the fucking point when we're talking about the devastation being created by the fishing industry, which I don't support in any way at all? This tiresome personal sniping just trashes decent debate.

 

[NoXion]

It's not enough though, to truly acknowledge it and reverse it we need to stop producing stuff. Cars, phones, computers, all the crap we fill our lives with, it needs to stop, but it won't and making power stations greener won't make a jot of difference.

You're talking absolute bollocks here. Decarbonising energy grids alone would make a huge difference, because they represent over a quarter of total emissions and the transition would also have cascading effects in other areas.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

So why go out of your way to single out the (rare) times I have to travel by plane for my work? What reaction where you hoping to achieve? And what's the fucking point when we're talking about the devastation being created by the fishing industry, which I don't support in any way at all? This tiresome personal sniping just trashes decent debate.

Had I been talking to someone else at the time I would have used an example of what they did, it's how conversations move on.

 

[editor]

You're talking absolute bollocks here. Decarbonising energy grids alone would make a huge difference, because they represent over a quarter of total emissions and the transition would also have cascading effects in other areas.

And, of course, avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth.

 

[IC3D]

My personal flying habits are well known, they are pictured on the transport thread, my job is also well known, as is the car I drive, none of us are perfect, some worse than others, me very much included, but as I keep repeating, unless global society fundamentally changes we are fucked, all the modelling shows that unequivocally.

Does this make you feel it is unfair as you will loose more than others with lifestyle cutbacks and try to shoehorn Editors modest contribution in some sort of false equivalence. Im not having a go this is a rational human response. Worth breaking through as this is the crux of the issue for it will be you facing more limits so you need to be engaged in the change.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

You're talking absolute bollocks here. Decarbonising energy grids alone would make a huge difference, because they represent over a quarter of total emissions and the transition would also have cascading effects in other areas.

Have you seen what China has done in the past few years? 8 new airports every single year within China alone, never mind the damage being wreaked around the globe by Belt & Road. None of this is going any way to reduce global warming at all, they are shifting much of it away from China on to Africa and other places in the same way we shifted our shit to China a couple of decades ago. But the warming is global, so fucked.

 

[NoXion]

"It's too late" except when it isn't.

From here.

I think the lesson to take here is that it's still worth fighting for tomorrow.