Weasel Straw strikes again (Pakistani men in Britain see white girls as "easy meat")

[phildwyer]

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/women_in_islam3.htm
(Evangelist Christian website)

Evangelıst Chrıstıan websıte entırely devoted to the fanatıcal denıgratıon of Islam, to be precıse.

 

[ernestolynch]

Jawa lol

 

[DrRingDing]

That was an interesting and unexpected reply. Would you care to expand on your answer? If Jack Straw is Jewish, why would that be relevant?

Off that high horse.

Ern was being irksome and facetious. I replied in kind.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

All the people I've been friends with that are Muslim or come from an Islamic background have high moral standards and very sound. They have all had to put up with shit from racist cunts. The very same cunts that are fuelled by sensational tabloid tales. It's fucking sickening.

Would you say that most of them come from a 'liberal' interpretation of Islam? My experience of men from a conservative interpretation of Islam – I can think of four men I've known reasonably well from such a background – is that they have been horribly misogynistic and hypocritical. Such massively restrictive cultures, which constrain sexual urges in particular, lead to perversion of sexual urges. the same thing happened in Victorian Britain.

 

[ViolentPanda]

sadly i've met jewish people with these attitudes too - the idea that non-jewish girls are just for "practice" etc. one guy i met said as much to me once and after a conversation with my dad - who's also jewish btw , he said that he'd met a number of men with these attitudes, and more shocking ones than that over the years.

Yep, same here. I knew several YHVH-botherers, incredibly self-regarding and self-righteous scripture-molesters, who nonetheless thought it was fine to "fuck around", but would belt a sister who even looked in the direction of a bloke who wasn't her brother.
I also remember my great-gran talking about how "wayward daughters" were dealt with "back home" (extra-marital pregnancy was pretty much a death sentence unless it was a rebbe's son who had impregnated you), and how she was glad to be away from such barbarity.

 

[phildwyer]

All the people I've been friends with that are Muslim or come from an Islamic background have high moral standards and very sound.

Me too.

Anyone here have any dıfferent personal experıence (as opposed to what they hear from press and polıtıcıans)?

 

[ernestolynch]

What's YVYH?

 

[Fullyplumped]

Off that high horse. Ern was being irksome and facetious. I replied in kind.

Ah, your famous British ironic "humour."

 

[Fullyplumped]

What's YVYH?

Isn't it one of the many names of *o*?

 

[Deareg]

Unfortunately it is probably an attitude that is prevalent among many men not just muslims, that certain women are slags and deserve whatever comes their way from ridicule to rape.

 

[ViolentPanda]

And to address the point people are making regarding Pakistani men not being the only people exploiting children in this way - I see little evidence of predatory pedophilia in this manner being carried out by comparably larger ethnic communities in the UK, such as the Indian, Jamaican or Chinese.

Back in the '70s, before "Pakistani" was a term understood beyond an insult to use against brown-skinned people, the more usual media trope was of "coloured men" (usually meaning what we'd now call "Afro-Caribbean") preying on underage white girls, and back in Queen Victoria's day, it was indeed the Chinese who fulfilled that "bogeyman" role, all based on a small amount of unfortunate fact, and an even more unfortunate large amount of racially-motivated speculation.

 

[pk]

I suppose it depends whether you see the problem as being restricted to the community with a Pakistani background or whether you see it as a problem of Muslim communities/countries in general.

Muslim communities in general - Pakistani communities being the largest and most established here.

 

[revol68]

I would be suprised if there wasn't some truth in what Jack Straw is saying, just as there is certainly some truth in what Bin Laden has to say about US foreign policy...

I don't see anything particularly controversial about his assertions, the only people who would are those that believe racist, oppressive and supremacist views are only the domain of whitey.

p.s. all English women regardless of ethinicity are slutty whores compared to our pure irish lasses.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What do you do, though, VP? I think people have become completely muddled on this issue. For instance, up and down the country, meetings of Islamic societies are held in university rooms at which women have to sit at the back, heads covered, and are not allowed to speak. These are the 'official' Islamic societies of the universities concerned.

How is this allowed? The universities should not be allowing such discrimination to occur on their premises. But it seems that they're scared of taking action.

 

[smokedout]

I'm sure there are. It's when they are 13 and 14 years old and from the care system, plied with cocaine and vodka, and then repeatedly raped (regardless of consent, they are too young to give consent especially if drunk/drugged, so it is rape by default) that the problems are beyond the impressionable young girl and older man in flash car scenario.

yes of course, but its far from an easily cut and dried issue, although onviously if you are talking about 13/14 year olds then it does start to become much more clear cut

but honestly, if you think this problem which is endemic throughout the care system is confined to Pakistani men then you really are living in a dream world

young people, men and women, get sucked into a criminal underworld for lots of different reasons, for women that often also entails sexual abuse

this is a problem about criminality, how do you think some of the organised white or black criminal outfits treat young woman, its about the cancer that has allowed criminal families, gangs of youths of whatever ethnicity to have such a stranglehold on working class communities

the reason i believe this has happened is as much to do with class amongst anything else, race is just a convenient side issue for opportunistic politicians and careerist self-appointed community leaders

 

[ViolentPanda]

Precisely the same mindset. Same in Turkey. White backpacker girl = prostitute. Unless heavily covered and wearing a wedding ring.
Same in Israel (with the Israeli Arabs) and throughout the Gulf.

It's not just the Israeli Arabs in Israel, Sabras are as bad, if not worse.

 

[revol68]

Back in the '70s, before "Pakistani" was a term understood beyond an insult to use against brown-skinned people, the more usual media trope was of "coloured men" (usually meaning what we'd now call "Afro-Caribbean") preying on underage white girls, and back in Queen Victoria's day, it was indeed the Chinese who fulfilled that "bogeyman" role, all based on a small amount of unfortunate fact, and an even more unfortunate large amount of racially-motivated speculation.

The 'dark other' praying on white women is a long standing trope of racism but I think there is an element of truth in that some men from the muslim community see many white women as essentially whores, just as many strict catholics or christians often labelled any woman behaving in a manner outside their religious mores as whores, sluts and finally "asking for it".

It's a type of inverted white supremacy that denies negative agency to non white groups in constructing their own racism, hierarchies and oppressions.

 

[pk]

All I can say ıs that I'm frıends wıth quıte a few Brıtısh Muslıms, and none of them would countenance thıs sort of attıtude for a nanosecond.

Do you know many Brıtısh Muslıms? If so, would any of them behave ın the way descrıbed by Straw?

I knew many living in Bradford. And a great many of them did unfortunately foster a love/hate thing with white women.

It was their predominant topic of conversation, and being frustrated young men who were denied sex with the muslim raised women inevitably they envied the more permissive attitude of their British white pub-going peers.
The mission every weekend was to look for "pusseh" and there's no way they would be treating muslim girls with the levels of contempt they harboured for white girls.

I don't know too many now, the Londoners I know from muslim backgrounds are better raised and have far more respect.

 

[ernestolynch]

I would be suprised if there wasn't some truth in what Jack Straw is saying, just as there is certainly some truth in what Bin Laden has to say about US foreign policy...

I don't see anything particularly controversial about his assertions, the only people who would are those that believe racist, oppressive and supremacist views are only the domain of whitey.

p.s. all English women regardless of ethinicity are slutty whores compared to our pure irish lasses.

Aren't you of Protestant Anglo/Scots stock?

 

[ernestolynch]

In the 1950s the Maltese were the pimps.

 

[pk]

It's not just the Israeli Arabs in Israel, Sabras are as bad, if not worse.

The "arseem" - young men in a gap year between college and obligatory military conscription - are certainly of the "fuck/fight anything that moves" mentality.

 

[revol68]

yes of course, but its far from an easily cut and dried issue, although onviously if you are talking about 13/14 year olds then it does start to become much more clear cut

but honestly, if you think this problem which is endemic throughout the care system is confined to Pakistani men then you really are living in a dream world

young people, men and women, get sucked into a criminal underworld for lots of different reasons, for women that often also entails sexual abuse

this is a problem about criminality, how do you think some of the organised white or black criminal outfits treat young woman, its about the cancer that has allowed criminal families, gangs of youths of whatever ethnicity to have such a stranglehold on working class communities

the reason i believe this has happened is as much to do with class amongst anything else, race is just a convenient side issue for opportunistic politicians and careerist self-appointed community leaders

I don't think pk is asserting this to be fair.

I think he is saying that such reasoning exists and is a factor, whereby religious muslim woman are kept on a pedestal as pure, above being "degraded sexually" and so these "whorish" uncovered secular white women become the focus of this repressed sexuality, much like the repressed catholic who is strictly missionary with the missus but uses prostittutes for his 'less acceptable' kinks and desires.

It's a madonna/whore thing played out across religion/race.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What's YVYH?

I don't know, ern. Why don't you tell me?

 

[pk]

yes of course, but its far from an easily cut and dried issue, although onviously if you are talking about 13/14 year olds then it does start to become much more clear cut

but honestly, if you think this problem which is endemic throughout the care system is confined to Pakistani men then you really are living in a dream world

I don't think it's confined to Pakistani men at all. I do think it is kept hush-hush by community leaders, who now need to start reporting this stuff to authorities rather than quietly spiriting perpetrators back to Pakistan.

young people, men and women, get sucked into a criminal underworld for lots of different reasons, for women that often also entails sexual abuse

this is a problem about criminality, how do you think some of the organised white or black criminal outfits treat young woman, its about the cancer that has allowed criminal families, gangs of youths of whatever ethnicity to have such a stranglehold on working class communities

the reason i believe this has happened is as much to do with class amongst anything else, race is just a convenient side issue for opportunistic politicians and careerist self-appointed community leaders

I would agree. One battle at a time I guess.

 

[revol68]

Aren't you of Protestant Anglo/Scots stock?

get to fuck!

Irish Scot and raised catholic.

 

[Thimble Queen]

Child abuse, rape and the targeting of vulnerable young women, and boys, should be spoken about. But I’m not comfortable with the idea that what has happened in this case is a unique feature of Pakistani society. It’s misleading and divisive to reframe this as a race/cultural/religious issue. Scum like this are on the fringes of society and are not representative of the majority of British Muslims.

Although I think Jack Straw is a cunt, even he said that sex offender wings are majority white inmates not Pakistani/Muslim.

These girls, many of whom had been in or come out of care, were vulnerable and needed protection. Rather than looking at how the mechanisms that should have been in place to protect them failed, the debate is concentrating on blaming the evil Muslims. It’s racist scapegoating and doesn’t address the real issue, protecting vulnerable young people from sick fuckers irrespective of what religion/background they are.

I know that it doesn’t matter what I say, the bigotry and racism will keep on fucking coming….

PK - You're either extremely naive or a racist prick.

 

[pk]

It's a madonna/whore thing played out across religion/race.

Precisely. The women that are exported from Western world into the media of the eastern countries are the Madonnas and Lady Ga Gas, not the athletes and femenists.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That's how I would see it, certainly. Any religion that represses sexuality will end up with individuals with shitty attitudes towards those outside their religion, imo, because the expression of one's sexuality becomes a matter of morality.

 

[ernestolynch]

I don't know, ern. Why don't you tell me?

You posted it. Nutjob!

 

[ernestolynch]

Although I think Jack Straw is a cunt, even he said that sex offender wings are majority white inmates not Pakistani/Muslim.

This is a 90% white country, you daft 'apeth.