Weasel Straw strikes again (Pakistani men in Britain see white girls as "easy meat")

[belboid]

Being critical of Islam is not being racist. As you well know.

are you saying it cant be?

 

[Lock&Light]

If I was saying that, I'd say it.

 

[belboid]

well, your comment was entirely pointless then.

 

[Lock&Light]

well, your comment was entirely pointless then.

The point is clear. Those critisising pk for his critical attitiute to Islam, have no justification for calling him rascist, IMO.

 

[belboid]

aah, so you meant you think that pk's criticisms of islam weren't racist. you should have said so. you'd have definitely been wrong then

 

[Lock&Light]

So, you mean any critisism of islam has to be rascist. I don't agree.

 

[belboid]

If I meant that,I'd say it. I don't think that at all. I think pk's criticisms of Islam rest on a racist basis. And are false.

 

[Lock&Light]

I know that you think that. I simply don't agree.

 

[ernestolynch]

If I meant that,I'd say it. I don't think that at all. I think pk's criticisms of Islam rest on a racist basis. And are false.

I'm not the bloke's biggest fan but I've never thought of him as a racist. It's too easy for Trots such as your good self to dismiss people as racists.

Only I am allowed to do that, being an anarchostalinist.

 

[Proper Tidy]

anarchostalinist.

Have you a synopsis of anarchostalinism Ern?

 

[ernestolynch]

Have you a synopsis of anarchostalinism Ern?

New thread.

 

[CyberRose]

The problem when discussing issues like this is inevitably it boils down to an argument over the motives of the people taking part in the discussion rather than debating the actual problem. I don't think anyone here has racist views towards Muslims or Pakistanis but any criticisms will be viewed with much suspicion by many on here due to their involvement with anti-fascist movements. All I ask is that you all think about how many times you were accused of being anti-semitic because you criticised Israel, and how daft you thought those accusations were because you raised a valid point. That's how people on this thread feel when their opinions are cast aside as simply being racially motivated...

(Anyone remeber the Israel Megaphone?! Reminds me of threads like this!)

 

[Proper Tidy]

All I ask is that you all think about how many times you were accused of being anti-semitic because you criticised Israel, and how daft you thought those accusations were because you raised a valid point.

And also how many actual anti-semites use anti-zionism as a cover, of course.

 

[CyberRose]

And also how many actual anti-semites use anti-zionism as a cover, of course.

If these comments were coming from known racists like the BNP or EDL then of course I'd view their motives as suspicious as well, but I was referring to (regular) posters on U75...

 

[Proper Tidy]

(regular) posters on U75...

PK ffs!

 

[pk]

They weren't deleted. The statistics are still there.

Where? Can you provide a definitive link? I can't find them, and want to.

They show that the figure given for 41 rapes committed in Oslo in 2008 all committed by immigrants is actually only a fraction of the total number of rape convictions in Oslo for that year. They also show that the rate of rape in the north of Norway is far higher than in Oslo.

So far as I can see, ALL the reports on high levels of rape committed by Muslims in Oslo seem to use a single quote by one Inspector Gunnar Larsen. This seems to be applied to statistics allegedly from all the years from 2005 to 2009 always attributed as if it's regarding that set of statistics. It first appears in an article by one Jonathan Tisdall in Aftenposten in 2001. In 2010 precisely the same statement is being attributed to him regarding pretty much the same statistics described as being for 2009, and despite being the same as a decade before, still being described as an alarming increase. Inspector Larsen may, of course, always make precisely the same statement to the press several times a year. More likely all these reports are a complete load of bloody toss, which is why they don't link to any official statistics.

OK well we're getting somewhere. If these figures can be flung around and reprinted as fact - and they are in fact a wrong conclusion reported on official channels by a rogue cop - Inspector Gunnar Larsen - and let's not forget Hanna Kristin Rohde, another police officer, she was the one interviewed on TV by the Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation (NRK) journalist...
... then we have a situation where two serving police have gone on record to grossly distort their own figures. I would really like to see hard stats on these Oslo figures.
The figures & research undertaken was reported on that NRK news clip to be a three year investigation by Oslo police, not Aftenposten by the way. (the 41 rapes claimed to have been all carried out by foreigners).

Interestingly I've seen the Aftenposten report credited on some blogs and websites as being from 2003, 2005, 2007 and 2010. Maybe Aftenposten prints the report every few years. More likely racists pass it around and, being by nature lying twats, simply claim it was just printed yesterday.

This is a ridiculous assertion. Aftenposten has a long tradition of serious journalism, and is by many considered to be the leading Norwegian newspaper.
It's certainly the most popular newspaper in Norway, and is read by nearly half a million people a day.
It is by no means some sort of Prison Planet style undisciplined agenda-ridden fascist house of lies.

I'm well aware racists will pick up on this sort of stuff and blare it out as evidence to suit their agenda, but if there is nothing solid to disprove them, spelt out in nice simple terms to get through the amount of bone involved, then what's to stop them? It's by no means clearly wrong or misrepresentative of statistics, is it?

As for Lancashire... http://www.justice.gov.uk/stats-race-criminal-justice-system-07-08-revised.pdf

And how do you propose to use that link to prove that anything I have concluded is wrong?

Again, chucking up a link to a 227 page report is simply not good enough.
If you have found conclusive figures that show a complete contradiction to what Jack Straw and senior muslim figures are saying, then post them up.

Let's fix this, and then we can move on. Let's show that these oft quoted figures are just lies, with hard and specific factual statistics as evidence.
I did accept the possibility of the 63% being a misprint of 6.3%, and edited everything I had previously posted with this figure to reflect the possibility of it being a misprint.
You simply cannot accuse me of ignoring or denying hard facts or sticking my hand up when I've been proven to be wrong, and throw a context free 227 page report up as if it means anything without explaining how you deduce what you have asserted. If you want to play this game, get your shit straight.

Bear in mind it is the method of abuse, the car, drugging and pimping young children, that is under discussion. Statistics for ALL rape attacks will obviously be more reflective of the overall population. The unusual practice of taking these children and the manner in which they are pimped are the only rape attacks I want to see statistics for, or failing that - anecdotal evidence from people in the field working.

The policeman in the car on the Newsnight report appeared to do so, but his actual statements were vague, his figure of 80 percent sounded a lot to me like 8 percent.
Have a listen for yourself. I've accepted that he did actually say 80 percent, for the sake of argument, even if it does contradict all the other opinions that led to this media storm.
But he didn't clearly qualify that figure, he did not attribute that 80 percent to the specific method of abuse and rape that is the central topic of this thread.

You can see what I'm getting at, can't you?

 

[pk]

PK ffs!

Grrrr... I'll get that pk one of these days!!

 

[Proper Tidy]

You're a fucking loon

 

[Proper Tidy]

Aftenposten has a long tradition of serious journalism, and is by many considered to be the leading Norwegian newspaper.
It's certainly the most popular newspaper in Norway, and is read by nearly half a million people a day.
It is by no means some sort of Prison Planet style undisciplined agenda-ridden fascist house of lies.

Circulation of some 750,000 I believe

 

[pk]

You're a fucking loon

I'll big the big bad boogieman if you want, it clearly make it easy for you to dismiss any of the valid concerns here.

Yes, I believe everything in the Daily Mail unquestioningly. Is that better sweetheart?? Bless...

 

[Proper Tidy]

I'll big the big bad boogieman if you want, it clearly make it easy for you to dismiss any of the valid concerns here.

Yes, I believe everything in the Daily Mail unquestioningly. Is that better sweetheart?? Bless...

You brave bringer of truth. You're not really some fucking loon spouting ignorant bollocks on the web. You're basically a hero you know. You should meet Mandela.

 

[ericjarvis]

I've done a bit of further digging on the mysterious time travelling Inspector Gunnar Larsen of the Oslo Police's Vice, Robbery, and Violent Crimes Division. Searching Google for his name ONLY shows links to the Aftonbladet report, reprints of it, and a whole load of reports claiming that the very same research is brand new for every damn year from 2001 to 2010. Inspector Gunnar Larsen does not have any presence on the web in any other context. He has clearly made no other statement to the major news media in either English or Norwegian, EVER.

It gets more mysterious though. Whilst Oslo Police have a Vice division and a Violent Crime division, the only situation in which I can find any mention on the web of a Vice, Robbery, and Violent Crime division refers to the same damn quote by Inspector Gunnar Larsen.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I've done a bit of further digging on the mysterious time travelling Inspector Gunnar Larsen of the Oslo Police's Vice, Robbery, and Violent Crimes Division. Searching Google for his name ONLY shows links to the Aftonbladet report, reprints of it, and a whole load of reports claiming that the very same research is brand new for every damn year from 2001 to 2010. Inspector Gunnar Larsen does not have any presence on the web in any other context. He has clearly made no other statement to the major news media in either English or Norwegian, EVER.

It gets more mysterious though. Whilst Oslo Police have a Vice division and a Violent Crime division, the only situation in which I can find any mention on the web of a Vice, Robbery, and Violent Crime division refers to the same damn quote by Inspector Gunnar Larsen.

Ah, turns out its a racist trope...

 

[pk]

I've done a bit of further digging on the mysterious time travelling Inspector Gunnar Larsen of the Oslo Police's Vice, Robbery, and Violent Crimes Division. Searching Google for his name ONLY shows links to the Aftonbladet report, reprints of it, and a whole load of reports claiming that the very same research is brand new for every damn year from 2001 to 2010. Inspector Gunnar Larsen does not have any presence on the web in any other context. He has clearly made no other statement to the major news media in either English or Norwegian, EVER.

Are you saying he doesn't exist?? Maybe he's camera-shy??

I can only find bullshit links too, regarding Gunnar Larsen. So you may have something there. But Hanne Kristin Rohde exists, she's on the video saying exactly the same thing on behalf of her department. She seems to be the go-to officer for the media, in fact. Google her name... but it's Hanne and not Hanna.


No comment on Hanna Kristin Rohde and her televised statement to the same effect, and no link to show the REAL Oslo statistics to counter what Inspector Gunnar Larsen was quoted as saying, and indeed according to you reprinted every year by Aftonbladet.

This really isn't enough. I want to believe it, but you're not coming up with the goods.

No links, just assertions that you expect to be taken as gospel truth.
Precisely what I've been accused of.

It gets more mysterious though. Whilst Oslo Police have a Vice division and a Violent Crime division, the only situation in which I can find any mention on the web of a Vice, Robbery, and Violent Crime division refers to the same damn quote by Inspector Gunnar Larsen.

It may be a translation error, grouping departments like that.

I don't know, but it's hardly the point. As I said, Aftenbladet is a respected news source.
Why would they blindly reprint lies year on year? And where is your proof that they are lies, where are your figures that contradict Larsen and Rohde?

Let's remind ourselves of what Hanne Kristin Rohde had to say, after all:

She said she was aware that the “statistics are controversial.”

When she was asked by NRK if the police were not “stigmatising an entire community” by releasing the statistics, Ms Rohde said she “wants to contribute to a better and safe world.
That’s why the truth needs to be told. I hope the debate will focus on that,” she told NRK.

According to the police figures, the number of rapes with violent assault committed in Oslo also doubled compared to 2008.

According to the police statement, “in each and every case, not only in 2008 and 2009 but also in 2007, the offender was a non-Western immigrant.
At the same time, in 9 out of 10 cases, the victim was Norwegian, not just by nationality, but also by ethnicity.”

The NRK report concluded that “not a single one of the offenders had a Western background.
Four people have been arrested.
In all other cases, the victims reported that the offenders either looked like non-Western immigrants, or they spoke a non-Western language.
Not a single case has been connected to a Western man.”

http://www.eutimes.net/2010/01/norway-pays-bitter-price-for-mass-immigration/

 

[ericjarvis]

Oh yes, and how come the grand total of rapes investigated by the Oslo police is 41 over the three years to 2008, and yet there were 161 in 2007 according to the police figures?

 

[pk]

Oh yes, and how come the grand total of rapes investigated by the Oslo police is 41 over the three years to 2008, and yet there were 161 in 2007 according to the police figures?

What police figures??

Where are you getting this data??

I'm really keen to clear this up now and move on.

I've been straight with you, I've accepted I may have posted a widely circulated misprint.

Come on, surely you can meet me halfway and provide a link to your statistics that show the Larsen/Rohde statements to be utterly false?

 

[pk]

I think pk's criticisms of Islam rest on a racist basis. And are false.

Yet you appear to be having terrible trouble actually proving it. What you "think" is irrelevant, as is what I "think".

 

[ericjarvis]

Are you saying he doesn't exist?? Maybe he's camera-shy??

I'm saying I can't find any proof of his existence other than as a quoted police source attributed as saying precisely the same thing about several different sets of statistics for different years. All of them claiming to show a Muslim rape epidemic in Oslo, and none of them backed up with any official statistics beyond a few headline number.

No comment on Hanna Kristin Rohde and her televised statement to the same effect, and no link to show the REAL Oslo statistics to counter what Inspector Gunnar Larsen was quoted as saying, and indeed according to you reprinted every year by Aftonbladet.

I can't view the video on my PC, and I can't find anything in print other than Rohde simply making an assertion that all 41 assault rapes over 3 years were committed by non-Western immigrants. I have already posted a link to an analysis of the real official statistics earlier in the thread. I never said the article was reprinted annually by Aftonbladet, but only that it appears one a large number of web sites variously claiming it to be a newly released report for every year since 2001 when the original article was printed. I'm not saying Aftonbladet reprinted it. I'm saying that the vast majority of the web sites quoting it are LYING about when the report came out.

This really isn't enough. I want to believe it, but you're not coming up with the goods.

I'm doing way better than you are. So far you've basically got two statistically unsupported statements from Norway, and a load of speculation based on a grand total of 4 cases from the UK.

No links, just assertions that you expect to be taken as gospel truth.
Precisely what I've been accused of.

I've posted links. However you are clearly demanding something impossible, official statistical proof in the form of a short paragraph of words of one syllable. If you aren't prepared to look into the actual data then tough luck, all you'll ever have to go on is tabloid bollocks and racist blogposts.

It may be a translation error, grouping departments like that.

Of course it is. The actual department is the sexual and violent crimes division. My point is that there is a single quote from a single police source attributed to several different sets of statistics over a decade, all of them using precisely the same mistake in translation. It says to me a total lack of interest in fact checking.

I don't know, but it's hardly the point. As I said, Aftenbladet is a respected news source.
Why would they blindly reprint lies year on year? And where is your proof that they are lies, where are your figures that contradict Larsen and Rohde?

I would hardly describe Aftonbladet as a respected news source. It's the Scandanavian equivalent of the Sun. Not quite as bad, but hardly a particularly reputable newspaper. It's a scandal sheet that is apparently running downhill about as fast as it's running out of money.

 

[treelover]

another case, this time in Rochdale, expect to see many more prosecutions

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK...tions_Of_Grooming_White_Teenage_Girls_For_Sex

 

[ericjarvis]

http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/03/05/a_krim_tab_en/tab/tab-2010-12-03-20-en.html

http://www.ssb.no/english/yearbook/tab/tab-148.html

http://www.ssb.no/english/yearbook/tab/tab-152.html

http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/03/05/a_krim_tab_en/tab/tab-2010-04-15-01-en.html