Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Oxford/AZ one can be kept in a normal fridge, or just left outside on a day like today.
Vaccine roll-out: the logistics
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
Oxford/AZ one can be kept in a normal fridge, or just left outside on a day like today.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Frau Bahn does volunteering at oldies flu clinics, just shepherding them in, listing to their old waffle and so on, she's been approached to do the same for Covid clinics, but rather than a couple of Saturdays a year it will be almost a fulltime job.
Well quite a big one. If one bottle is contaminated, you'd have to throw it all away. Never mind if it got damaged / dropped / lost in transport. Egggs and baskets innit.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Much like risks should they cut corners with the batch quality control process, its not just a question of the risk to individuals. There is also the risk that if they fuckup something on that front, confidence in the safety of the vaccine will be undermined and that in turn will reduce the number of people willing to accept vaccination.
souljacker
innit
Some stories like this:
"The Brighton and Sussex University Hospitals NHS Trust offered vaccines to ambulance staff on December 27. But anger arose when South East Coast Ambulance Service (SECAMB) allegedly forbid staff from getting the jab, despite the vaccine potentially going to waste if not used up."
"...it is believed the vaccines supply was 'surplus for the day' and staff had been asked if they wanted the jab to 'prevent wasting a number of doses'. To the horror of ambulance staff, some who had travelled almost 100 miles to access this treatment, they were met by a SECAMB manager who had been instructed to turn the staff away at the door."
"The union shared a Facebook post from the South East Coast Ambulance Service (SECAMB) which say they have 'protocols to follow'. The post read: 'We've been made aware of an offer of staff to drop in for their covid-19 vaccine at a hospital site in our region. 'We appreciate the offer was made in good faith but we have protocols to follow in this regard. We would ask that staff do not do this. The trust has been given strict instructions on how our staff can access the vaccine and we will keep staff informed on when and how they can do this as the vaccine programme continues to be rolled out."
Union accuses ambulance chiefs of telling staff not to have covid vaccine at Brighton hospital
A union has accused ambulance bosses of telling their staff not to take up an offer of having the coronaviruswww.brightonandhovenews.org
WTF? That makes no sense at all. What protocols? Stupid fucking cunts. They should be utterly ashamed of themselves. Jobsworth cunts.
elbows
Well-Known Member
This BBC article looks at the size of the challenge and some of the bottlenecks:
Covid: Can we really jab our way out of lockdown?
A shortage of glass vials, an overload of bureaucracy and lengthy safety checks could slow the UK down.
www.bbc.co.uk
8ball
Decolonise colons!
This might be dumb thought, clinically speaking, but it occurred to me that as long as doses are prepared in suitable areas by suitable personnel (something analogous to a hospital pharmacy clean room), then there could be a whole bunch more people who could be competent in the (no pun intended) "sharp end" of admin, injecting and keeping an eye on patients for a bit in case of anaphylaxis etc.
Army, retired medical staff, assorted volunteers etc.
Army, retired medical staff, assorted volunteers etc.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Sounds like they're throwing away one in six doses anyway, and that roll-out will be delayed by a lack of vials, so I'd want to see some figures around the likelihood of contamination, and how much more quickly vaccine could be delivered, to weigh the risks.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Think that's part of what's being sorted out. I know someone who's got a non-clinical vaccine admin job to free up staff to actually give the jab. TBH you could give a vaccine after a very short training session, lots of people watched over by a qualified clinician would be fine imo, and is also something they're planning on doing. Doesn't need to be a doctor, nurse, paramedic etc. to give a jab.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I think the issue of large bottles being more likely to be contaminated isn't one I'd think is the problem, it's the manufacturing something from scratch that's probably not been done before that would be the issue I think.
Indeliblelink
\......👁&👁......./
Trying to get the last full 1ml out of a small glass bottle is quite tricky, if you're not careful it's easy to get air mixed with the liquid and end up only giving a partial dose. It's like when you finish drinking a milkshake through a straw, when you get to the bottom you start sucking air unless you tilt the cup and move the straw about. Much safer to put an extra ml in the vial so you know you're getting 5 full does rather than 5 and a bit.
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Boudicca
Seaside Queen
I've just volunteered to be a 'vaccination marshall'. Mostly because I have nothing better to do, but I confess that a small part of me is hoping for that 'we've got a few doses left, does anyone want one?' moment.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah, it's not like they're being not used for no reason. I did read a paper recently looking into what % of vaccines get wasted in normal programs.
elbows
Well-Known Member
And more broadly I would much prefer they minimise the number of deviations away from the normal way these things have been done in the past. I dont want new variables introduced into the mix if it can be helped. My confidence is already delicate due to the giddy rushed atmosphere of the pandemic vaccine launch, and I require mundane and well established elements to be part of the mix in order to keep remaining faith levels up.
Supine
Newt Member
thats what a vial is
I've applied to stab people
Not sure how coordinated it is behind the scenes but signing up was pretty confusing: there's NHS trusts advertising directly, both for paid and volunteer vaccinators and various support roles (assisstant vaccinator / steward / volunteer coordinator / etc.), then a national signup thing for roles "offered on a regional basis", then other orgs also taking volunteer applications... I used some website who've passed my application on to St John Ambulance to process.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
A quick google shows horse vaccines typically come in vials of 10 x 2ml doses. I didn't find any bigger vaccine vials than that.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I was assuming they were meaning like 5 litre bottles or something?!
andysays
Love and solidarity
When I had my flu jab in December, the woman who did it was someone who has previously worked as a receptionist, so she's presumably been trained to do vaccinations fairly recently.
She did a really good job too, I'd be happy for her to stick needles in my arm in future.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I've applied to stab people
Not sure how coordinated it is behind the scenes but signing up was pretty confusing: there's NHS trusts advertising directly, both for paid and volunteer vaccinators and various support roles (assisstant vaccinator / steward / volunteer coordinator / etc.), then a national signup thing for roles "offered on a regional basis", then other orgs also taking volunteer applications... I used some website who've passed my application on to St John Ambulance to process.
Yeah, I've been chasing up being a vaccinator through a number of different channels too, and it does all seem a bit stuck and messy atm. I think some of that is inevitable and will hopefully become more efficient and simpler soon....
Imagine how many doses you'd potentially end up having to bin at the end of the day!
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
They'd catch us swigging the dreggs behind the vaccine shed.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I hadn't really heard whether there was a shortage and only have experience of injecting myself, but would be happy to help out if there was a bottleneck and I could fit it around work. Seems like this part needn't be a bottleneck at all.
Athos
Well-Known Member
I meant BIG bottles - like 100 doses a pop, for the vaccination hubs with sufficient throughput e.g. hospitals! I don't really know much about this stuff, so was hoping someone could explain why it's better to have loads of small vials. I get there's a greater risk of contamination, but don't really have a feel for the likelihood and severity of that, and whether it outweighs the gains of less wastage (if the one in six is accurate), and quicker rollout (if packaging is the bottleneck).
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
The protocol is probably fine - it's probably just being used as a figleaf by some mouthbreathing dumbass "COMPUTER SAYS NO" control freak dickhead who's suddenly found his (brief) moment of power.
You can get guns that work that way for livestock! First time helping vaccinate cattle was a bit of a shock after being used to human patientsHell, why not just have a massive syringe with a ratchet that clicks for every person you jab.
Give the needle a quick lick between jabs. It be reyt.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
You can get guns that work that way for livestock! First time helping vaccinate cattle was a bit of a shock after being used to human patients
Especially when you jab your tongue when licking the needle!
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