Should the Covid vaccine be mandatory?

[clicker]

Do hospitals still routinely test for MRSA before patients are admitted?
If so, it seems wrong that an unvaxxed member of staff could be doing the swabbing. Are they interested in stopping infection or not?
Everyone deserves the best level of protection currently available.

 

[elbows]

It does feel like some people haven't been living in the same universe as me for the last two years when I hear arguments to do with personal choice and freedom, though. Don't you remember when we were all locked away for months on end?

Such things are massively affected by a sense of whether such things are a last resort under circumstances where there isnt perceived to be much choice but to do those things.

I'd much rather have been commenting on a pandemic that featured much more wiggle room to the extent that everything could have been left to personal choice, and guidance rather than formal laws. In the pre-vaccine era I could not make the numbers add up in a way that allowed such a degree of wiggle room, and thus I deemed various heavy, mandatory things to be totally necessary, and a very quick response to be crucial.

And my attitude towards some of that stuff and some vaccine mandate stuff is going to be influenced by what happens next. We saw how the Delta wave dragged on when a formal lockdown was not involved, and I dont know to what extent we will get a repeat of that with Omicron, we are going to find out in the months ahead. It would be nice to think that people like you who I argued with about the merits of lockdown can now see that it wasnt just about the timing and height of the peak, but also about how things fell in a sustained way afterwards, and this Omicron wave will give us the opportunity to talk about that sort of thing again this time if we want.

 

[IC3D]

clicker they are full of vaccinated patients with Covid and loads of vaccinated staff are off sick with Covid reflecting the breakout nature of this virus. Testing is getting more tricky as it is not so easily picked up. Yes MRSa is a routine swab on at admission.

 

[rubbershoes]

clicker they are full of vaccinated patients with Covid and loads of vaccinated staff are off sick with Covid reflecting the breakout nature of this virus. Testing is getting more tricky as it is not so easily picked up. Yes MRSa is a routine swab on at admission.

Obviously you're getting your information from different hospitals to the one I know about. The covid wards at Taunton hospital have largely unvaccinated people.

 

[rubbershoes]

Quoting this, so it can't be deleted. Had to put up with this type of shit for over 3 decades of living in the UK.

And you shouldn't have to put up with it on here. I naively think that urban is a haven from nationalistic and much other bullshit.

 

[IC3D]

These are the general wards rubbershoes and mix of vaccinated and not. ICU has a few Covid but nothing like before.

 

[IC3D]

I've pm'd a proper apology rubbershoes for the record

 

[elbows]

Obviously you're getting your information from different hospitals to the one I know about. The covid wards at Taunton hospital have largely unvaccinated people.

That picture may be true in individual hospitals but is absolutely not supported by the available national data.

The unvaccinated make up a disproportionate number of hospitalised people, that is much greater proportions of patients than the proportion of the overall population they represent.

On some months in some settings the unvaccinated may also account for well over half of people in intensive care with covid.

However they absolutely do not make up the vast bulk of hospitalised cases. There are loads of hospitalisations and deaths in the vaccinated cohort.

For example here is a slide from the recent Javid press conference, which focusses on critical care.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1048397/For_Publication._2022-01-19_COVID-19_Press_Conference_Slides__1_.pdf

As can be seen, ~40% in December were vaccinated. Under 10% were boosted, but there were still plenty of those.

 

[LDC]

l'Otters the vaccine is like an imaginary seatbelt.

You absolute fucking fool. I do hope you don't have any clinical responsibility for patients. Even very dated figures show tens of thousands of lives saved by them in the UK alone. Likely it'll be millions worldwide.

COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report published

National coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccine surveillance report, including estimated number of hospitalisations and deaths prevented.

www.gov.uk

 

[redsquirrel]

IC3D Why not fuck off back to the drugs forum? You loon cunt.

This

FTR I'm not in favour of compulsory vaccination of NHS staff, as much because I think it will be self-defeating as anything, but IC3D and like loons can fuck right off.

 

[mojo pixy]

We are being asked to upload our proof of vaccination. I work under secondment to the NHS and we have been told all CQC services have to have this in place.

Same. I work for a private company but they've been stricter than any Official Guidance since the beginning. They were already saying internally as soon as there was a vaccine that they'd be expecting 100% uptake from staff, health conditions aside, because loads of care providers started asking for proof of vaccination from last spring, well before it became law.

We have to either,
1. Get a 'for travel' covid pass from the NHS (they're concerned about staff providing false passes so each pass has to be fully authenticated), or
2. Provide a GP letter confirming vaccination status to date.

Or, provide a GP letter confirming exemption.

It's certainly setting the cat among the pigeons. And essentially as i understand it yes, anywhere registered by the CQC is covered by this, including homecare providers, whose deadlines for 1st and 2nd doses are currently the same as the NHS deadlines (3/2/22 and 1/4/22)

 

[LDC]

I've applied and got a new NHS job recently, and had to prove vaccine status for it on various forms. Other people I know in a variety of other NHS jobs have been given a date by which to prove status. A friend who's a GP has a hardcore vaccine refuser working in their surgery who they've had to chat to several times but they're still currently refusing to have the vaccine. Think they'll get the sack. Someone I know in a managerial position says most people who haven't had it previously are now getting it, so it is improving take-up.

 

[kalidarkone]

clicker they are full of vaccinated patients with Covid and loads of vaccinated staff are off sick with Covid reflecting the breakout nature of this virus. Testing is getting more tricky as it is not so easily picked up. Yes MRSa is a routine swab on at admission.

Not for at least the last 5 years or more in My trust. In order to have an MRSA swab prior to surgery there is a criteria such as currently working in health and social care, having a n overnight stay in hospital within the last 3months, currently receiving care services at home or being an IV drug user.
Also inpatients require an MRSA test every 30 days and a covid pcr every 7 days.

 

[Balbi]

Substitute "Drunk driving" for "not getting vaccinated if you work with clinically vulnerable people" and here's the thread.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Not for at least the last 5 years or more in My trust. In order to have an MRSA swab prior to surgery there is a criteria such as currently working in health and social care, having a n overnight stay in hospital within the last 3months, currently receiving care services at home or being an IV drug user.
Also inpatients require an MRSA test every 30 days and a covid pcr every 7 days.

Maybe it varies depending on the prevalence of MRSA in the area - they routinely test for it before admission round my way.

 

[IC3D]

That's different kalidarkone x3 a week pcr for covid also

 

[elbows]

It will be rather unsurprising is staffing levels pragmatism wins over hard deadlines in England. And there are indeed already some signs of this:

Hospitals in England could continue to employ unvaccinated NHS healthcare workers beyond the April deadline if not doing so risks leaving them dangerously understaffed, the sector regulator has indicated.

The Care Quality Commission (CQC) said it would implement the government diktat for mandatory jabs “fairly and proportionately”, amid fears that it will exacerbate the NHS’s existing staff crisis.

Trusts cleared to use unvaccinated health staff amid reports of Javid U-turn

Frontline staff in English hospitals who have not had jab may be able to work if dangerous understaffing deemed a greater risk, says regulator

www.theguardian.com

 

[Griff]

Fuck 'em.

Either anti-social, thicker than dog-shit, or thicker than dog-shit and anti-social. Don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out. Or do, I don't

Overturned thankfully, so let's hope you or your loved ones don't need any help from any unjabbed NHS workers. I'm sure you'll say 'fuck 'em".

You fucking cunt.

 

[gosub]

 

[gentlegreen]

???

 

[8ball]

I saw something by that Lotus Eaters lot the other day on YouTube.

Haven’t looked at the above vid yet, but they seemed like proper fruitloops on the one I saw.

 

[gentlegreen]

I saw something by that Lotus Eaters lot the other day on YouTube.

Haven’t looked at the above vid yet, but they seemed like proper fruitloops on the one I saw.

Carl Benjamin / Sargon - alt-right shite.

 

[8ball]

Carl Benjamin / Sargon - alt-right shite.

I think I’ve heard the term “Sargon”.
Regardless, with the other vid I saw I was going purely by the content.

It was very bad.

But anyway, am aware I’m indirectly commenting on something I haven’t seen, which is a bit low quality on my part.

 

[gosub]

Not a fan of the bloke, also I'm triple jabbed however fuck mandatory vaccination

 

[8ball]

Not a fan of the bloke, also I'm triple jabbed however fuck mandatory vaccination

Is that mandatory vaccination in general? Or mandatory vaccination for people with no covid antibodies who are looking after highly vulnerable people?

Well, not mandatory vaccination, just vaccination as a condition of further employment in such an environment.

 

[gentlegreen]

no one should be giving that cunt clicks.

 

[8ball]

Regardless, some of that shit happening in Canada is barking. (6:20)

 

[AmateurAgitator]

I don't like the idea of the state having the power to coerce people to get vaccinated. However when it comes to caring for clinically vulnerable people it's a different story and my gut feeling is that those caring for them should be vaccinated if they can. But I think this is a complex issue and am also aware that there are some people who, for health reasons, are at risk if they get vaccinated.

I would like to know, if possible, how many NHS staff are unvaccinated? (though alot to do with this issue might be about being fully vaccinated or not) If it's a lot of NHS staff then that seems odd to me. And I think that if people don't have a good reason not to be vaccinated then really they should be.

State coercion does bother me, but at the same time I'm interested in the idea of providing incentives for people to get vaccinated, and also depriving them of things (such as certain services) as an incentive to do so. But to be honest I'm not entirely sure about that. I'm pretty sure though that such methods might be necessary even in a society without a state.

 

[8ball]

Interested in the mechanisms by which a society without a state legitimises coercion..

 

[l'Otters]

Still don’t think mandatory vaccination is the way forward.

Where it’s for healthcare staff with patient facing roles. Have the following been tried yet?

• q&a on the vaccines offered (within paid work hours)
• paid sick leave for 2 days post vaccine whether you need it or not
• bonus of £50 or thereabouts

Healthcare workers have been treated with total contempt by the government.

While we’re at it they all should be issued with ffp2 masks as a minimum by now, which will protect both them and their patients. If the root concern is protecting the vulnerable from infection this is proven to be effective, wouldn’t cost that much, and hopefully wouldn’t be so controversial for the staff.

Funny how the focus of the debate got shifted onto this tho init. Clouds out all the other measures which the government aren’t taking. See also ventilation improvements & CO2 monitors.