Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Should the Covid vaccine be mandatory?

Should the Covid vaccine be mandatory?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Don't know


Results are only viewable after voting.
Meanwhile, Kate, a nurse in Hampshire, told the Today programme she was prepared to lose her job rather than have a coronavirus vaccine against her will.

"I don't feel like the vaccination needs to be mandated because we are medical professionals and we have enough information to make that decision for ourselves," she said.

"When I had Covid I was ill but not particularly unwell and when it comes to me being forced to do something or lose my job, I just can't understand how they think that's a sensible position.
"I'm good at my job, I care about people, and I certainly have never and would never put people at risk."

IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU.

Good fucking grief, when you're a nurse or any other health professional, you are required to work with people who may be clinically extremely vulnerable, so it doesn't matter a fucking jot if Covid, an infectious disease, is mild for you. Covid doesn't give a shit about your good intentions either.
 
I would like to know some of the reasons why some healthcare staff are not taking the vaccines? Real reasons, I think that could lift the debate.
 
I would like to know some of the reasons why some healthcare staff are not taking the vaccines? Real reasons, I think that could lift the debate.

I spoke to a family member today who is a manager in the NHS.

Alongside the conspiraloon 5G Bill Gates ideas, some of her staff have genuine concerns about new conditions being imposed on your contract of employment without negotiation / consultation.

It's not a reason not to get vaccinated but it is an interesting issue I hadn't thought of.
 
Remember when they sneaked the health records bill through last summer with an opt out clause no one could use in time allowing some organisations access to your records. Guess what they used it for?
 
And that shit should be fought with all the weight of your union. Fuck this authoritarian bullshit.
What is your position on Vaccination Mr.Bishie? I would prefer NHS frontline staff were vaccinated and I don't see too many other options, depending on their reasons for not having the vaccine.
 
Appears that Royal College of Nursing are goig to start openly opposing mandate now I expect more unions to follow. Late but great news.
 
It's an odd position, for sure, to be administering treatment for others but refusing good medical practice for yourself in order to protect those you're treating. I just find it really sad that there are thousands of people in the health service who are doing this.

I do think omicron changes the game somewhat. And past infection is so common now, particularly among the unvaccinated, that most of those thousands will have some natural immunity, which also changes the game.

On balance, while I can't say I'm not annoyed by health workers refusing the vaccine, the most urgent reason to require it is now not quite so urgent as delta recedes. I would rather the fight with the unvaccinated were not being picked just for the sake of picking it.

On the other hand, the (non)actions of those who refused the vaccine very certainly cost the lives of some of those who were vaccinated during the delta wave. It's not purely a personal decision. I think it's wrongheaded to argue this from the pov of freedom tbh. There are always two kinds of freedom - freedom to act and freedom from being acted upon. And they're often in conflict, so a decision over which freedoms to uphold cannot please everyone.
 
My current stance for this stage in 2022 is dominated by a practical consideration - that there will be more harm to patient safety from sacking large numbers of staff in a short timeframe that is now looming large on the horizon, than there will be from postponing the deadline.

Beyond that it gets complicated, because individuals beliefs, understanding and attitudes get complicated and are often somewhat contradictory. Some people resist stuff when it is forced upon them without a choice, or when all the emphasis is on coercion via negative means. Some people have the wrong sense of risk, or a different attitude to what is really necessary for themselves, eg even some people in the health care profession probably see medical interventions as a last resort, and are aware of or afraid of potential downsides. Some have a blase attitude because they already caught it or were left on the front lines with no decent protection for a long time, and they struggle to see beyond their own experiences of that period and their typical mindset when it comes to personal risk. Especially if they cope with life by ignoring a whole bunch of potential risks, by not spending too long getting caught up in a world of worst-case risks and scary applications of the imagination.

I do care rather a lot about hospital infection control and have mentioned that broader topic many dozens of times in this pandemic. I would much prefer that everyone who qualifies to work in such professions had it properly drilled into them during their years of training what is expected from them in terms of being vaccinated etc. But there is a difference between that, and suddenly making a switch long after they've been employed in such roles.

And I have a very large problem with the fact that some personality types really struggle to imagine themselves causing harm to their patients. Some people are very resistant to that, such as the doctors and surgeons that have to be weeded out because they think that hand washing rules and other hygiene matters dont apply to them. Combinations of arrogance, narrow-mindedness and a sense of self that is dominated by them seeing themselves exclusively as a wonderful force for good can contribute to such sorry states of affairs. Such thing may be exascerbated by needing a certain degree of confidence and self-assuredness in the first place in order to be able to do those sorts of jobs without being paralysed by doubt and the weight of responsibility (I couldnt do such jobs because I would worry all the time about fucking up). But all that side of things is just one corner of the problematic landscape, there are many other issues too, many different reasons why some are resisting getting vaccinated despite their front line healthcare role. eg there are also overlaps with all the other sorts of vaccine hesitancy we see in the wider public, that have nothing in particular to do with their healthcare job. And there is sometimes excessively binary thinking about vaccines, refusing to appreciate that there is still some benefit even when vaccines are not 100% effective at achieving particular things. Which in this case may manifest as people claiming there is no point in terms of patient safety to them being vaccinated if it doesnt completely eliminate the risk of transmission, regardless of whether it does still reduce the risk of transmission a bit.
 
I'm really torn on this. I mean, get the fucking vaccine if you can (ie, you've not got a legitimate medical reason not to). But we can't afford to lose NHS staff.

But vulnerable people who need care - what about their freedom? To not get horribly ill and die.
 
I faced 'no jab, no job' last year, and despite my unwillingness I had the fuckers. I wasn't unwilling because of the vaccine per se, but because of the mandatory aspect. Still, I found no sympathy for my unwillingness among the vast majority of people I discussed it with. It has changed my view regarding mandatory vaccines, for health workers and indeed for everyone. I have no objections any longer, to mandatory vaccination of any kind. I realised how selfish and petulant I was being, and I now can't un-realise that, and I see it everywhere. "Why should I?" Yeah, fuck that question, especially when it comes to public health. Sorry, not sorry.
 
Is that legally mandated though, or left to the good judgement and consideration for other people of the worker?
I might me wrong but I would assume it is part of the health and safety regs and that in order to comply a restaurant would have to show that there is a facility for staff to wash their hands and that they are told they must do so. No way to really prove if they do or not I guess.
 
I can't imagine (within a hospital setting at least) how unvaccinated NHS staff will be identified unless they come forward.

The hospitals are so ridiculously short staffed - in every area that I wonder on a practical basis how identifying unvaccinated staff will be rolled out.

I am fully vaccinated and boosted, however no one has ever checked this. I do LFTs every two days but no one has ever checked this. For all I know there may be Healthcare staff that may be positive for covid and unaware and at work.

Aside from being the most short-staffed ever, the NHS is a huge mess administratively and bureaucratically on day to day basis.

I dont see how mandatory vaccines can be enforced within a huge hospital setting?

This is aside from the fact that imo patients and the clinically vulnerable are more likely to die because their treatment will be delayed/non existent/poor quality.
I am finding it very challenging to be able to give satisfactory care to everyone I look after because of the lack of staff and huge volume of patients.
 
Seatbelts don't stop you getting hurt in an accident but they're good at reducing the potential harm, especially if some prick is driving like a cunt without a seatbelt on.

Seat belts reduce the harm to you in an accident regardless of whether whoever crashes into you is wearing a seat belt. :confused:
 
The seat belt analogy keeps getting trotted out but it is a very poor one.
No matter how stupid not wearing one may be you are only putting yourself at risk. It was made compulsory about the time I was learning to drive and there were people complaining about freedom of choice and state oppression at the time. These days no one gives a shit because clearly it wasn't the beginning of a fascist dictatorship.
Vaccination is fundamentally different because being unvaccinated does mean you are wilfully (whatever your motives) putting other people at risk.
 
The seat belt analogy keeps getting trotted out but it is a very poor one.
No matter how stupid not wearing one may be you are only putting yourself at risk. It was made compulsory about the time I was learning to drive and there were people complaining about freedom of choice and state oppression at the time. These days no one gives a shit because clearly it wasn't the beginning of a fascist dictatorship.
Vaccination is fundamentally different because being unvaccinated does mean you are wilfully (whatever your motives) putting other people at risk.
I think the seatbelt stuff just gets aired out of frustration with the loonery, ignorance and general pro-plague cuntistry of antivaxxers.

If figures were the other way round and 90% of staff were unvaccinated I wonder what the death rates and staff shortage levels would be like by now.
 
I can't imagine (within a hospital setting at least) how unvaccinated NHS staff will be identified unless they come forward.

The hospitals are so ridiculously short staffed - in every area that I wonder on a practical basis how identifying unvaccinated staff will be rolled out.

I am fully vaccinated and boosted, however no one has ever checked this. I do LFTs every two days but no one has ever checked this. For all I know there may be Healthcare staff that may be positive for covid and unaware and at work.

Aside from being the most short-staffed ever, the NHS is a huge mess administratively and bureaucratically on day to day basis.

I dont see how mandatory vaccines can be enforced within a huge hospital setting?

This is aside from the fact that imo patients and the clinically vulnerable are more likely to die because their treatment will be delayed/non existent/poor quality.
I am finding it very challenging to be able to give satisfactory care to everyone I look after because of the lack of staff and huge volume of patients.
We are being asked to upload our proof of vaccination. I work under secondment to the NHS and we have been told all CQC services have to have this in place.
 
The seat belt analogy keeps getting trotted out but it is a very poor one.
No matter how stupid not wearing one may be you are only putting yourself at risk. It was made compulsory about the time I was learning to drive and there were people complaining about freedom of choice and state oppression at the time. These days no one gives a shit because clearly it wasn't the beginning of a fascist dictatorship.
Vaccination is fundamentally different because being unvaccinated does mean you are wilfully (whatever your motives) putting other people at risk.

Just quibbling as the recent law, at least I think it's law, meaning you have to belt up in the back, had campaigns pointing out you as a rear passenger could severely injure someone in front if thrown into them.
 
I can't imagine (within a hospital setting at least) how unvaccinated NHS staff will be identified unless they come forward.

The hospitals are so ridiculously short staffed - in every area that I wonder on a practical basis how identifying unvaccinated staff will be rolled out.

I am fully vaccinated and boosted, however no one has ever checked this. I do LFTs every two days but no one has ever checked this. For all I know there may be Healthcare staff that may be positive for covid and unaware and at work.

Aside from being the most short-staffed ever, the NHS is a huge mess administratively and bureaucratically on day to day basis.

I dont see how mandatory vaccines can be enforced within a huge hospital setting?

This is aside from the fact that imo patients and the clinically vulnerable are more likely to die because their treatment will be delayed/non existent/poor quality.
I am finding it very challenging to be able to give satisfactory care to everyone I look after because of the lack of staff and huge volume of patients.
Here in Germany you don't get into any indoor venue (restaurants, clothing stores, cinemas, etc) apart from the most essential stores (food, pharmacies) if you haven't been fully vaccinated and boostered (or tested within 24 hours instead of a 3rd vaccination). We all have to carry digital vaccination passports + ID with us. On top of that, for work I have to test myself 2 times a week and send the result to HR. If all if that can be done here, I don't see how staff couldn't be checked at hospitals.
 
Vaccines should not be mandatory, they are not effective enough yet. Why should we have to have an injection that doesn't stop you from getting ill or stop you from passing it on? How this virus affects folk seems to be quite varied, I had the 1st 2. I'm not bothering with the booster. I'd rather just avoid people for the rest of my life tbh.
If I had children I'm really not sure if I would want them being vaccinated until it has been totally proven that there won't be after effects.
 
Back
Top Bottom