tbf the Grant Shapps/DoT letter was about the ULEZ expansion to the north & south circulars.
Uxbridge and South Ruislip by-election
- Thread starter PR1Berske
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brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Agreed, but even though the expansion was imposed on TfL as a condition of the Covid times funding agreement of central Govt. support, Khan wanted to harness the good PR that he figured the policy would yield and never sought to emphasise Shapps' compulsion. Partly a factor of London Labour not really understanding Outer GL, IMO.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
The May 2020 agreement did not specify that geography, it merely requested expansion.
gosub
~#
Ah that makes sense. And can grasp round that area being a different kettle of fish....other particulates abound in West London. (Though probably as much cost of car finance and built in obcellesance in current economic environment!)
True - but the north/south circular was the expansion that was being talked about at the time. Think it’s a red herring anyway - it’s setting out how additional TfL funding has been agreed presumably with input and agreement from the mayor & TfL.
ULEZ expansion is a good policy and Sadiq is rightly proud of it - Labour should be too.
I don’t think it was compulsion - I think it was TfL’s & the mayor’s policy and the letter is setting out what has been agreed.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Tend to agree with that although I will be affected with a non-compliant diesel vehicle. I think there could have been some more creative thought to the implementation in the outer boroughs where vehicle ownership is higher and the geography of lower density urban fabric and services. I suppose I'm thinking about more of a 'natural wastage' model than the 'cliff-edge' approach, but I'm conscious that my self-interest in not paying £12.50 a day may well be a factor in my views on the implementation,
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I don't live in London, so have no horse in the ULEZ race.
What I do know though is that the LEZ has improved Central London air massively. When I returned after a 30 year gap, I could not believe the difference.
If I lived in London, I wouldn't have a car, with the public transport system there, you don't need one.
What I do know though is that the LEZ has improved Central London air massively. When I returned after a 30 year gap, I could not believe the difference.
If I lived in London, I wouldn't have a car, with the public transport system there, you don't need one.
gosub
~#
Really isn't just a London thing. Clean Air Zones (CAZ) In The UK - The Ultimate Guide (2023) | Motorway
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Yes, in principle, but there are areas in outer GL where the provision of public transport is less effective and there are always people who have needs that require their own transport.
It’s about behaviour change as well. Presumably those with non-compliant cars will use them less where they can. Uxbridge still has pretty good transport and about 1/2 households don’t have a car.
Road pricing will be the real game changer and the ULEZ cameras presumably will be able to be used for that. Driving in London is far too cheap and easy an option & TfL should look to raise revenue from it.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Again, I tend to agree with that...I am in favour of ULEZ...but, but it is important to be able to persuade and carry ordinary folk/voters with the policy and the implementation does feel very abrupt and blunt. If the vermin were so easily able to wedge Labour voters from the party in Uxbridge, Starmer is actually correct to say that Khan needs to reflect on the implementation.
Maybe implementation could be better but it’s a seat that Labour have never won. Throwing Khan under a bus over this makes Labour look weak tbh and I’m sure that a lot of Labour activists that campaigned for the candidate can’t be best pleased by his reaction.
Road pricing will be deeply unpopular for many initially but is the right thing to do & that’s what strong politicians do.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I'm no fan of Starmer's tory-lite stance, but it's not just Uxbridge, is it? The LP have got their eyes on a fair few outer GL constituencies with low to moderate vermin majorities. He's throwing Khan under the bus because of this 10 or so targets.
and putting off a lot of Labour members/activists in the process.
As I’ve said - fine to distance themselves from the policy but cave in to the Tories and call for it to be not implemented is very weak. It comes in in a few weeks and will probably mostly have blown over by the time of a general election. Delaying it will make it more of an issue if anything.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Since when was Starmer worried about the infantry?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
It’s always tempting to look for ‘strong’ leaders as the solution and whilst I have nothing against strong leadership however two things come to mind . Firstly does either the Mayors office of London Labour have a community engagement strategy for the outer London areas , something like ‘hearts and mind’ ? The second is the local Labour Party would have known about the local issues, but as I understand they were excluded from both candidate selection and strategy , with the campaign run by the centre and MPs and activists bussed in . The candidate imposed upon the local Labour Party was calling for ULEZ to be suspended . What prevented the Labour Party from preparing for this issue ?
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
Khan/TfL wanted to have a much larger scrappage scheme around it, which is one of the main complaints. But they can't do it without money from Parliament, and guess what they said?
It turned into a power play, just like TfL funding during covid. "Sure, we'll give you money for that if you let us control this, this and this"
