US House passes Obama's key healthcare reform

[sleaterkinney]

No one knows what that price is.

Income tax is the dues you pay to be part of the tribe

It's not a difficult concept.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

It's not a difficult concept.

I believe the phrase commonly used is "Love it or leave it."

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The US still tops in the liberty and 'everybody else does it' isn't going to keep us from falling into state control of whatever the state decides it needs to control.

You have a federal dept of education, don't you? Do you have a problem with the feds being involved in education - is that another trammeling upon Lady Liberty?

 

[dilute micro]

Income tax is the dues you pay to be part of the tribe. If you don't want to be part of the tribe, go live somewhere else. This was all hashed out by Aristotle a couple of milenium ago. If you can't abide the price of citizenship, go be a citizen somewhere you like better. Simple as.

Maybe in a coloring book you've seen.

 

[dilute micro]

I believe the phrase commonly used is "Love it or leave it."

Or blind allegiance.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Maybe in a coloring book you've seen.

In other words, you have no rational response.

Expecting citizens to contribute as the price of citizenship is one of the underpinnings of western civilisation. It was one of the founding principles of Greek democracy.

 

[dilute micro]

You have a federal dept of education, don't you? Do you have a problem with the feds being involved in education - is that another trammeling upon Lady Liberty?

You don't know what liberty is then. It's not given to you by the government. It can only be taken away.

 

[dilute micro]

In other words, you have no rational response.

Expecting citizens to contribute as the price of citizenship is one of the underpinnings of western civilisation.

Or you think the income tax jibes with the founding principles of liberty.

 

[sleaterkinney]

In other words, you have no rational response.

Expecting citizens to contribute as the price of citizenship is one of the underpinnings of western civilisation. It was one of the founding principles of Greek democracy.

No no it's COMMUNISM!!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Like it or not, dm, you are a human being, who has evolved that particularly big brain in order to be able to cooperate with other big-brained humans in complex ways that enable you to survive in your group. Being human, you spent the first few years of your life almost totally helpless and dependent on those around you. Given the level of your dependency and the amount of diverse skills you needed to learn, your parents were dependent on others in your group to help provide those needs for you.

Now you are finally an adult, it is your turn to shoulder some of the responsibility for the group.

Why don't you grow the fuck up?

 

[dilute micro]

Like it or not, dm, you are a human being, who has evolved that particularly big brain in order to be able to cooperate with other big-brained humans in complex ways that enable you to survive in your group. Being human, you spent the first few years of your life almost totally helpless and dependent on those around you. Given the level of your dependency and the amount of diverse skills you needed to learn, your parents were dependent on others in your group to help provide those needs for you.

Now you are finally an adult, it is your turn to shoulder some of the responsibility for the group.

Why don't you grow the fuck up?

Is this a biography?

Why don't you give me some money?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I am starting at the beginning because you appear somewhat deficient in the basics.

 

[dilute micro]

In other words, you have no rational response.

Expecting citizens to contribute as the price of citizenship is one of the underpinnings of western civilisation. It was one of the founding principles of Greek democracy.

Where is Greek democracy now?

You need to read up on why the founders feared bad and corrupting taxation.

 

[TAE]

You don't know what liberty is then. It's not given to you by the government. It can only be taken away.

That's not true.

Liberty is also the ability to travel across the country using trafic lights administered by the government, on roads built by the government and (mostly) kept free from armed gangs by the goverment.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Where is Greek democracy now?

You need to read up on why the founders feared bad and corrupting taxation.

You need to read. (period)

 

[ymu]

Saudi Arabia doesn't have income tax. You could go live there. I hear they're very liberal.

 

[dilute micro]

You need to read. (period)

No, seriously. Learn about it. Taxation and what kind of taxes kept a country healthy libertywise was a big deal, a very big deal.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

No, seriously. Learn about it. Taxation and what kind of taxes kept a country healthy libertywise was a big deal, a very big deal.

No, seriously. Read a book sometime.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Where is Greek democracy now?

Where is US healthcare?

You need to read up on why the founders feared bad and corrupting taxation.

Like this: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States"

 

[dilute micro]

That's not true.

Liberty is also the ability to travel across the country using trafic lights administered by the government, on roads built by the government and (mostly) kept free from armed gangs by the goverment.

That's not giving liberty. And that's not federal anyway.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What the fuck are you on about? We'll see how free you feel when you suffer an accident and find you cannot afford the hospital bills. You have no idea how freeing it is to know in a country like the UK that you will never be faced with medical bills whatever misfortune befalls you. That income tax is higher as a result is a small price to pay – if you have an income, you can afford to pay it.

You don know that the US health system is by far the most expensive in the world and nowhere near the most effective, don't you? Why do you defend such an absurd system? You splutter about the government, yet you say nothing about the enormous, wasteful, exploitative insurance system that will decide your fate if you ever fall ill. Give me government any day over those cunts.

 

[dilute micro]

No, seriously. Read a book sometime.

No, seriously. You read...seriously.

You seemed interested in the income tax.

 

[dilute micro]

Where is US healthcare?


Like this: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States"

We're talking about the income tax. They didn't want it.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What, exactly, is wrong with income tax? It directly links taxation level to the ability to pay. Do you object to the idea that the amount of tax you pay should be linked to your ability to pay it?

Extraordinary if you do.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

That's not giving liberty. And that's not federal anyway.

The interstate highway system was built by the fed. Rural electrification was federal. Going to the moon was federal.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

You don't know what liberty is then. It's not given to you by the government. It can only be taken away.

I know all that. Are you upset that the feds have a hand in education?

 

[dilute micro]

What the fuck are you on about? We'll see how free you feel when you suffer an accident and find you cannot afford the hospital bills. You have no idea how freeing it is to know in a country like the UK that you will never be faced with medical bills whatever misfortune befalls you. That income tax is higher as a result is a small price to pay – if you have an income, you can afford to pay it.

You don know that the US health system is by far the most expensive in the world and nowhere near the most effective, don't you? Why do you defend such an absurd system? You splutter about the government, yet you say nothing about the enormous, wasteful, exploitative insurance system that will decide your fate if you ever fall ill. Give me government any day over those cunts.

I'm not defending the system we have. I'm not saying any change is good change.

 

[dilute micro]

I know all that. Are you upset that the feds have a hand in education?

Yes of course, if you call that education.

 

[sleaterkinney]

We're talking about the income tax. They didn't want it.

They didn't want direct taxes, income tax isn't direct.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm not defending the system we have. I'm not saying any change is good change.

Would you prefer a UK-style free at the point of access, paid for out of general taxation system? If so, I agree, it is hugely preferable to the scheme Obama's introducing.

If not, what would you propose, and how would you pay for it?