Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
OSS, when you've sorted the mess out in your own union you'll be qualified to give an opinion on my union. Until then fuck-off and get your own mess in order instead of boring the fuck out of everyone on here.
Unite General Secretary Election
- Thread starter magneze
- Start date
One_Stop_Shop
Well-Known Member
Oh look it's the other half of the insult you in every post double act. Yeah because clearly I am responsible for the mess in UNISON, not the leadership. I don't agree with you at all about only looking at your own union, it's the worst of syndicalism. The more people in other unions criticise what the UNISON leadership does the better in my book. It's a shame more left wing union leaders won't criticise right wing ones.
Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
Wanker.
One_Stop_Shop
Well-Known Member
You obviously know as much about your own union as you do Unite.
How many of the candidates in the last UNISON GS election were fulltimers?
One_Stop_Shop
Well-Known Member
Er, Dave Prentis, a long time bureaucrat even before he was GS. And all the signs are that when he goes the bureaucracy will try and push another full timer as their favoured candidate.
Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
OSS, if you and your ilk spent less time in the virtual world and more time as a trade union activist you might have ousted Prentis. Instead, you choose to enter the virtual world, a place you're not to clever at negotiating by the look of things; here you interfere in the business of other people putting forward ill-thought out statements and virtual opinions on issues you've not a clue about.
Go away and start to build a campaign against the cuts.
Go away and start to build a campaign against the cuts.
So, er, a third of the candidates were full timers. That means two thirds werent.
Not that many then.
nightbreed
Im Bored
One Stop Shop.
Can you show everyone where Len McCluskey was involved with the Gate Gourmet dispute in 2005?
My recollection of the time was that he was the National Officer for General Workers or ACTS not Civil Air Transport ( obviously Belboid or Urbanblues will correct me if I am wrong) He therefore had no negotiating responsibility for what happened.
Can you show everyone where Len McCluskey was involved with the Gate Gourmet dispute in 2005?
My recollection of the time was that he was the National Officer for General Workers or ACTS not Civil Air Transport ( obviously Belboid or Urbanblues will correct me if I am wrong) He therefore had no negotiating responsibility for what happened.
Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
That's correct nightbreed; in fact he was the nfto for my trade group at the time.
nightbreed
Im Bored
So using OSS 'dialectical logic' Bob Crow must be responsible for all the NUR betrayals of Sidney Weighell?
One_Stop_Shop
Well-Known Member
I did say UNITE and UNISON. Altogether half of them are full timers, which is a lot and added to this is the fact that the UNISON bureaucracy are clearly going to put forward another full timer after Prentis.
Don't be ridiculous. Where I'm involved our directorate has hugely increase both the membership density and amount of stewards in the past 2-3 years. Our branch has also been instrumental in building Lambeth Save Our Services which now involved UNISON, GMB, UCU, NUT, Lambeth Pensioners Action Group and Tenant's Council among others. We also just built quite a successful demo in Brixton on Saturday. So you don't have to lecture about what to do.
Nightbreed I was going on this:
Is this not true?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
that's not about McCluskey you imbecile
One_Stop_Shop
Well-Known Member
Good point. That was about Woodley 
So do you think McCluskey would have done things differently from Woodley and argued against him?
So do you think McCluskey would have done things differently from Woodley and argued against him?
No, you clearly said look at how many Unison GS candidates were full timers.
On your other point - can you see into the future? Do you already know the Prentis machine's chosen successor? Also what difference will it make if they choose a full timer or a lay officer? Surely it's the politics that matter?
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
agree with OSS that all you Unite folks on here seem to have a bizarre defensiveness over revealing the hidden political realities of your Union, without a knowledge of which everyone else is apparently 'ignorant'.
this 'my union, my business' attitude is ridiculously territorial and backwards.
this 'my union, my business' attitude is ridiculously territorial and backwards.
One_Stop_Shop
Well-Known Member
What are you talking about. You quoted me and I said UNITE and UNISON. By that I meant combined, sorry if that was unclear but don't see how it was. I don't know the "machine's" chosen successor but I have had feedback from an NEC level about who could be likely.
I agree that the politics are the main thing and the favoured successor from the bureaucracy will totally fail on that level as well. However I would far rather someone be lay officer/activist given that I don't think highly paid stretches in the bureaucracy give someone much of a link to the membership and inevitably affects their politics and outlook. Personally I don't favour anyone being on full time facility at a local level and think that regional and national full timers should be kept to a minimum, be elected and be on a workers wage.
One_Stop_Shop
Well-Known Member
Yes you keep saying this but refuse to engage with anything that is said or why people have got things wrong. You are totally defensive and not sure why. Possibly because you must know that McCluskey (sorry, Len) has many flaws politically and will not be anything like an ideal general secretary in the face of the massive cuts.
Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
OSS, I will lecture you on building a campaign against the cuts. Lambeth currently has around three stop the cuts groups. Do you seriously think you can do anything constructive with different groups pulling in different directions?
Lambeth SOS (not to be confused with the successful Lambeth SOS of a few years ago) is a mishmash of groups unrepresentative of Lambeth. Why, you’ve not even invited the Lambeth Trades Council on board.
Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
Agree away.
Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
Just read the latest SWP spiel on the election. Hicks’ supporters sound distinctly like Bayliss’. “If the union was fighting for workers, there would be the potential to recruit far more people.” – this from a Unite CYW Sector worker.
Like so many Hicks and Bayliss supporters she doesn’t speak about her union; no, she refers to it as ‘the’ union – something she’s somehow separate from; and, she speaks of recruiting not organising. Famously both these candidates still cling to the outmoded ideas of a servicing union; neither they nor their supporters are engaging in or attempting to engage in the concept of organising.
This one issue puts a massive distance between McCluskey and his progressive ideas on organising in today’s splintered and fragmented workplaces and the old craft trade union traditions from which both Bayliss and Hicks started in.
Like so many Hicks and Bayliss supporters she doesn’t speak about her union; no, she refers to it as ‘the’ union – something she’s somehow separate from; and, she speaks of recruiting not organising. Famously both these candidates still cling to the outmoded ideas of a servicing union; neither they nor their supporters are engaging in or attempting to engage in the concept of organising.
This one issue puts a massive distance between McCluskey and his progressive ideas on organising in today’s splintered and fragmented workplaces and the old craft trade union traditions from which both Bayliss and Hicks started in.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
You can read that much into somebody using the phrase 'the union'?
Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
It's what I hear a lot from people who pay their subs and expect their union to wait on them hand and foot. Maybe where you come from people have bought into the idea that 'the union' isn't some outside agency that will come to their rescue when they get a text from management saying they've been laid off; that a union is as strong as its organisation in the workplace or places.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
No, that's common in all unions. I'm just not sure how saying 'the union' as opposed to 'my union' or 'our union' leads you to conclude that was this woman's position. What she says is right - fighting unions attract new members, and the better the numbers the stronger the union's position. Hardly controversial. Wanting to recruit and wanting to organise the existing members are not mutually exclusive propositions.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
But Hicks comment is a load of old shite. While it is a bland truism that fighting unions recruit, if that is the entire remit of your strategy (as it is with Hicks) then it is no strategy. And it is also rather dishonest, implying that Unite doesn't support any members in struggle, whereas it has been at the forefront of the (very limited) workers struggles there ahve been. But that's Hicks' campaign all over, headline statements, and absolutely nothing to pad them out.
That CYW worker needs to be the one organising a fight, not waiting for Hicks' election to miraculously transform the union into an 'organ of working class democracy.' Only imbeciles and people who've never actually been involved in a union think they work like that.
That CYW worker needs to be the one organising a fight, not waiting for Hicks' election to miraculously transform the union into an 'organ of working class democracy.' Only imbeciles and people who've never actually been involved in a union think they work like that.
One_Stop_Shop
Well-Known Member
I agree that three different campaigns is not great, but it's hardly my fault or the fault of Lambeth SOS. For a start no-one can stop the SWP going around setting up their own front groups. More on this here:
http://jonrogers1963.blogspot.com/2010/10/uniting-against-cuts-in-lambeth.html
I'm afraid that is just not true that the LTUC wasn't invited, they were and will continue to be invited. I have no idea why the LTUC is taking the stance they are. Lambeth SOS is supported by Lambeth UNISON, NUT, GMB, UCU, Lambeth Action Pensioners Group, Defend Council Housing and Tenant's Council. Hopefully the PCS, RMT and FBU and Keep our NHS Public, among others, will soon be on board as well. Obviously we need to make it much broader but I would say this is very good start.
We have already stopped the One O'Clock workers being sacked which is a small but significant victory. I don't know why you are being so negative about the campaign.
nightbreed
Im Bored
Len got 101'000 and Jerry got about 52000 I understand. Together a good result for the left.
Similar threads
- Poll
