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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, Feb 2022 - tangentially related crap

Not at all. I know Russian competence has been in short supply, but if they're going to do things even slightly right then T-55s will not get within 20 miles of a modern MBT. It would be a complete death sentence. The DU rounds are for the T-90s.
The opposite. If Russia has more tanks, Ukraine has to kill more tanks in the same period of time - that means shooting at the absolute cusp of effective range - and DU rounds will kill modern tanks at 5km. This then allows the Ukrainians to concentrate on the antiques roadshow trundling towards them that can only effectively fire at 2-3km. HESH will kill a T-55 at 5km, but not an upgraded T-72 - only APFSDS will do that.

there are multiple types of APFSDS rounds that we could have sent which do not use DU, though
 
As regards the old tanks, I read recently that a lot of RU tanks (and UKR I believe) are being used in more of an indirect fire/artillery capacity. So that would render the lack of armour on the "antiques roadshow" less of a liability as they are essentially self propelled guns. I don't know how effective they would be, not knowing fuck all about Russian tank guns, old or new, but there may be a role for them in that as well as ammo sponges/mobile bunkers?

(Asking rather than telling).

This is very true - moving pillboxes might be a good way of describing them. It's both a part of Ru doctrine - which is smash the shit out of everything with artillery, then send the tanks and inf to mop up, and Ru lack of training: they simply can't do the intimate manouvere of armour and inf moving together onto the enemy with artillery suppor. It's a variation of smash the shit from a distance, then send the inf in. Fortunately the gun and FCS make them pretty inaccurate in the indirect fire role - though of course, if you've enough, you don't need that much accuracy - shotgun style.

Ukraine could do without them. They'll soak up lots of fire, and even if they're shit, a javelin that you've fired at a T-55 is a javelin you can't fire at a T-14...
 
there are multiple types of APFSDS rounds that we could have sent which do not use DU, though

Do you genuinely believe that army's keep different types of APFSDS ammunition stocked to account for the sensibilities of guardian readers?

Polly Toynbee says Tungsten only for use in Ukraine, but if 3rd Soviet Shock Army gets to Berlin you can break out the bad boys?
 
Do you genuinely believe that army's keep different types of APFSDS ammunition stocked to account for the sensibilities of guardian readers?

Polly Toynbee says Tungsten only for use in Ukraine, but if 3rd Soviet Shock Army gets to Berlin you can break out the bad boys?

No, but I do believe that this is not the time for stupid gestures. We are supplying a small number of tanks, and no doubt a small number of shells for them. There is an alternative that doesn't cause this row, and as far as has been reported this is something that not even the Yanks have done.
 
No, but I do believe that this is not the time for stupid gestures. We are supplying a small number of tanks, and no doubt a small number of shells for them. There is an alternative that doesn't cause this row, and as far as has been reported this is something that not even the Yanks have done.

If the Ukrainians don't want DU ammunition they won't fire it, and will use HESH instead. They are the experts in what they think appropriate both for their war, and their country in the long run.

No one else is making a fuss about DU ammunition. It's just you.
 
No, but I do believe that this is not the time for stupid gestures. We are supplying a small number of tanks, and no doubt a small number of shells for them. There is an alternative that doesn't cause this row, and as far as has been reported this is something that not even the Yanks have done.
The ‘row’ is fabricated outrage by Russia. They have and use DU rounds too, there’s no moral high ground being offered.
 
They are still trying to get closure on the historical use of DU in Montenegro . I’m not a boffin but I have been to sites that are still fenced off or have been extensively/ expensively cleaned up since. And I’m pretty sure it wasn’t in widespread use at the time. But yeh
 
they have them, but have they been used in this conflict?
Reportedly, yes. Tanks were converted to fire them in 2018, though I suspect that Russia’s infamously tardy military industry hasn’t churned out that many yet.

This is what Russian news agency Tass stated at the time.

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Now the same news mouthpiece is claiming such usage “violates the fundamentals norms of international law”.
 
Reports that Russia is re-commissioning/upgrading T54s which a lot of commentators are ridiculing, but if you have enough expendable crew then it makes complete sense An old tank can still do more damage and draw more fire than no tank
Numbers can be as decisive as technological superiority, its a long established Russian military doctrine
A sight to warm any tankies heart.
 
Now’s a good time for Pakistan to have a pop at India, their military is grinding to a halt as 60% of all their gear is Russian and Russia has halted supplies of spares…
 
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Reportedly, yes. Tanks were converted to fire them in 2018, though I suspect that Russia’s infamously tardy military industry hasn’t churned out that many yet.

This is what Russian news agency Tass stated at the time.

View attachment 367844
Now the same news mouthpiece is claiming such usage “violates the fundamentals norms of international law”.

Shame they don’t mention the white phosphorus used on civilians
 
Ukraine-supporting hackers managed to access the account of a Russian activist who had been raising funds to purchase drones for the invading forces. They spent the $25,000 he had raised on sex toys at Ali Express instead of the intended drone purchases.

 
Now’s a good time for Pakistan to have a pop at India, their military is grinding to a halt as 60% of all their gear is Russian and Russia has halted supplies of spares…
now's a good time for the chinese to have a pop at taiwan, while the americans are sending all that ammunition and so many missiles to ukraine
 
Not sure of the best place to post this as the Georgia threads are all pretty ancient and this does relate to Russian hegemony. Interesting article from the FT's Nadia Beard in Tblisi on the mood there which defeated the proposed anti-foreign-funded-media law.

How Georgians came together to fight a Russian-inspired law​

Three nights of protests in Tbilisi showed a divided opposition unified against Putin

including attitude to Russian exiles:
snippage
While Russian émigrés still tend to be fetishised as political exiles, the attitude I’ve most frequently seen them display is an anti-war position based on apathy, not activism.
A year into the war and many Georgians find this hard to bear. “They said that in Russia they couldn’t protest Putin and the war because things were so repressive,” one exasperated Georgian friend told me recently. “OK, well things aren’t so repressive here. They are allowed to help us, to protest and to act. Why don’t we see more of that?”

archived. How Georgians came together to fight a Russian-inspired law | Financi…
 
The war is reportedly improving attitudes toward LGBT people in Ukraine

Thousands of gay people are serving in the Ukrainian armed forces, often sporting a rainbow badge next to the Ukrainian blue and yellow on their uniform. LGBT groups have also been at the forefront of humanitarian volunteering. Their visibility has led to a sea-change in Ukrainian society...

...Sofiia Lapina, head of Ukrainepride, an NGO, argues that the shift in attitudes on gay issues partly reflects Ukrainian aspirations to be culturally and politically closer to Europe. It is also a way, she adds, for Ukrainians to oppose Vladimir Putin’s repressive Russia, which has outlawed “homosexual propaganda” and characterises the war in Ukraine as an existential battle against the West’s supposed promotion of gay marriage, rampant paedophilia and gender-neutral pronouns.

Ukrainian LGBT groups have documented how lesbian and gay people in Russian-occupied territories have been hunted down, raped, detained and humiliated. Tattoos of gay symbols are as much a red flag to Russian troops as Ukrainian tridents. Transgender people there are afraid to go out into the streets. Ms Lapina says “Ukrainians have begun to see more clearly that hate in any form—racism, homophobia—is basically Russian propaganda.”


 
This is kind of crazy. A few days ago footage from a Russian tank of a strike by a loitering munition on the tank was circulating on Twitter, although the strike dodged below the ‘cope cage’ screen and scored more or less a direct hit the tank survived. Anyhow, someone has now paired this footage with video of the strike from the other side (Ukraine). This is modern warfare on camera from both side’s perspective.

 
This is kind of crazy. A few days ago footage from a Russian tank of a strike by a loitering munition on the tank was circulating on Twitter, although the strike dodged below the ‘cope cage’ screen and scored more or less a direct hit the tank survived. Anyhow, someone has now paired this footage with video of the strike from the other side (Ukraine). This is modern warfare on camera from both side’s perspective.


unavailable tweets...
 
unavailable tweets...

it’s age restricted apparently (though nothing gruesome at all), so you need to be logged in to see it. Apologies to those who can’t, it’s a video otherwise I’d have done a screenshot as is the usual courtesy.
 
The war is reportedly improving attitudes toward LGBT people in Ukraine

Thousands of gay people are serving in the Ukrainian armed forces, often sporting a rainbow badge next to the Ukrainian blue and yellow on their uniform. LGBT groups have also been at the forefront of humanitarian volunteering. Their visibility has led to a sea-change in Ukrainian society...

...Sofiia Lapina, head of Ukrainepride, an NGO, argues that the shift in attitudes on gay issues partly reflects Ukrainian aspirations to be culturally and politically closer to Europe. It is also a way, she adds, for Ukrainians to oppose Vladimir Putin’s repressive Russia, which has outlawed “homosexual propaganda” and characterises the war in Ukraine as an existential battle against the West’s supposed promotion of gay marriage, rampant paedophilia and gender-neutral pronouns.

Ukrainian LGBT groups have documented how lesbian and gay people in Russian-occupied territories have been hunted down, raped, detained and humiliated. Tattoos of gay symbols are as much a red flag to Russian troops as Ukrainian tridents. Transgender people there are afraid to go out into the streets. Ms Lapina says “Ukrainians have begun to see more clearly that hate in any form—racism, homophobia—is basically Russian propaganda.”



The fight against fascism won't be confined to that particular conflict, reckon. Sooner or later LGBT communities are going to have to defend themselves in (parts of) the US, and other countries that have religious bigotries in place.
 

Not entirely sure what spare weapons it could give North Korea but still
 
Ukrainian Army soldier, (26-year-old) Artur Asadov has been killed in action on the eastern frontlines. Artur became well-known in Ukraine after talking about his relationship with his father, who fights for Russia. They had been exchanging messages from the start of the war.

Artur came from a military family from Eastern Ukraine, but was born and raised in Kyiv.

His father served 10 years in the Ukrainian Army, but left for Russia in 2011 to find another job.

He joined the “Donbas militia” in 2016.

Artur told reporters that he doubts he could take the life his own father if they met on the battlefield, but he does want him prosecuted and sentenced.

The last time the two spoke was when Artur wrote his father after having fought in the Kharkiv Offensive and personally helped retake the city of Izyum.

“Rejoice while you can,” his father wrote back.

Artur said his father had betrayed him, but that he wouldn’t late hate consume him.

Artur said his brothers-in-arms knew that his father is fighting for the enemy, but that they never questioned his own loyalty to Ukraine.


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Meanwhile, in the US, deranged anti-vaxxer RFK Jr, who is challenging Biden for the Democratic nomination, repeats fake Ukrainian casualty figures to Tucker Carlson, who aired them himself last week.

 

 
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