1%er
Well-Known Member
So why no policy in the euros as well?
Ukip - why are they gaining support?
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brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Because the 'kippers claim that their one, single, unifying, populist notion of withdrawal is the panacea.
1%er
Well-Known Member
but what about the big 3? Was this a manifesto free Euro election?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
And the other parties refuse to confront this. EU immigration is not the cause of unemployment, but acknowledging the real cause of unemployment - it is an inevitable result of neoliberal economics and the retreat from collective solutions to problems - is even more unpalatable to them than pulling up UKIP. And they are also too scared to advocate free movement in the EU as a positive - for the same reason, because they are not prepared to acknowledge the consequences of free movement combined with neoliberal economics and the retreat from collective solutions.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Yes, all of that...added to which that, unlike UKIP, the 2 main parties are politically riven on the issue.
You can't vote for individual candidates in the Euro elections: it's a party list system (which I hate but that's for another thread).
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What on earth has that got to with UKIP having openly stated policies or not?
1%er
Well-Known Member
When I asked this
we were talking about the locals
My understanding about the Euros is, it is some sort of PR and a list system.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
I might be wrong on some things, but on this I am not:
Lots of people are heartily sick of the same echo chamber shit, day in and week out eminating from the same class and sources that UKIP purport to be against. It's obscured the real politics of things like the NHS privatisation, benefit sanctions and other things that impact what is patronisingly termed "the real world" a lot more than 26 million people who aren't actually after my job, living in sewers or stealing babies.
I can't believe that people get slapped around on forums like this for saying that the bullyscum press has been absolutely hideous and gut-wrenching in recent months. (Well, I can believe it but only from experience)
A balanced assessment of the UKIP local election results is "medium sized party make good gains despite drop in share", but the press have to keep riding the same bandwaggon they've been on for months. They don't know any different, and sections that are often more sensible have gone along for the ride too.
I'm no Labourite, but the same press is painting the results as some kind of near disaster for them. Why? It wasn't great by any stretch, but what this is really about is right wing perspectives being applied again and again and again. Labour have made a bit more effort on issues that effect poorer people, like rents, zero hours contracts etc. Not miraculous and maybe no more than just noise, but they are attacked again and again.
With Tory and LD in government it's obvious that a Labour wobbler can be pushed towards UKIP, especially with enough hype. Then it's "LOOK!! Labour are really losing out" - it's a message the reactionaries want to project, and they have helped create it.
They needed to say that UKIP took Labour votes, to try and offset damage to their tory allies, and started doing so simoultaneously a few days after Farage and Co said it was a developing strategy. However, UKIP continue to eat far more into Tory votes, so if anything the game of lies is going to have to be stepped up. Lucky us.
It seems like the endless tide of hatred against migration isn't going to stop any time soon, especially not with Crosby practing his disgusting dark arts. Why should it be a problem to talk about it?
When I asked thiswe were talking about the locals
Ah, mea culpa.
Yes. D'Hondt and a party list.
Actually, I thought winning 338 extra council seats and 6 extra councils was a resounding success for Labour.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Fair enough, there's different ways of interpretting it. It was, for example from a 2010 base, general election night that wasn't great.
But my general point is that the MSM are fixated on an anti Labour perspective which has hardened because now there are 2 neoliberal zealot and socially conservative parties to bolster the narrative.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
grand. but iyo WHY are the msm fixated etc?
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Same as for as long as I can remember : They are systematically tuned to be skeptical or downright hateful towards anything that they could conceivably (in their opinion) described as "left wing".
For example, although "The Man Who Hated Britain" backfired to some extent, it was a piece that could have been put out any time. It happened to be put out within a very short time of EM saying he might do something about the energy cartels.
But that's a tiny example. There's plenty more, but I've got to head out soon. I'm a little surpised if you'd need to be told really.
I did have one realisation today, via someone on another board : I often wondered why the tenor of the press barons was so often anti EU. It was pointed out to me that, although the EU is largely a right wing crock as well, it's of a scale that can't be bullied nearly as easily by scumfucks like Desmond and Murdoch.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
I think there was policy in there and to be fair to the Labour Party on pithy issues. I'm sure the Greens and Lib Dems had acres of it. But who was going to hear it? The election was fought on a single issue and in this respect UKIP did only moderately well, though a bigger win in the Euros may be revealed. It may indeed be UKIP's high watermark as the EU 'question' may be 'settled' if the Tories get back in.
1%er
Well-Known Member
It seems to me that the EU question has hindered UK politics for over 20 years, It will be interesting to see how far to the right the Tories move for 2015.
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brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I'm not sure about describing UKIP's 17% PNS from these Locals as only a moderate success. Considering geography alone, its pretty obvious that many of the areas up for (re)election did not correlate with UKIP's previous areas of electoral success such as the S.Coast, Kent, E.Anglia, SW, Lincolnshire and the E.Mids....
Clearly, if more of their 'favoured' areas had been up, the BBC's PNS would have been higher; London alone will have deflated the figure significantly. Obviously tomorrow's UKIP Euro national % will be much higher than 17%.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
You are joking right?People behaving bonkers and saying daft things
Do pagans make you want to join the Catholic church?
Fuck off dickhead. I voted for UKiP because of morons like you! I hate the bastards but I hate you more.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Yep, but even 24% as in Sunderland is just 24% from 35% who turned out. It's not unreasonable to see their support as being well motivated to turn out at the moment. They still have largely fringe appeal only.
There is a very real anger around austerity, a class anger labour appears unable to speak to. But equally a large part of their support is of a 'down with this sort of thing' reaction from over 50's. That's force that isn't strengthening. It loses every time on issues such as gay marriage and it's fickle. Most people reject this kind of thinking and that means there is not an endless well for UKIP to draw upon.
Considering the coverage immigration and the EU has had UKIP did no better than ok. They will be ruthlessly exposed over the next year and will surely never have the debate so strongly in their favour again.
There is a very real anger around austerity, a class anger labour appears unable to speak to. But equally a large part of their support is of a 'down with this sort of thing' reaction from over 50's. That's force that isn't strengthening. It loses every time on issues such as gay marriage and it's fickle. Most people reject this kind of thinking and that means there is not an endless well for UKIP to draw upon.
Considering the coverage immigration and the EU has had UKIP did no better than ok. They will be ruthlessly exposed over the next year and will surely never have the debate so strongly in their favour again.
True, but IMO they've lost a lot of votes to UKIP - some genuine defections, but many, I think, protest votes.
Not going to argue with you there!
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
A UKIP supporter showing their true colours. Charming.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Labour did bloody well in the 2010 locals as it goes. Far far better then they did in the general election.
mauvais
on reddit or something
So it's been one whole day, but a day was obviously too long for this UKIP councillor to keep his past under the carpet.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...stigation-racist-homophobic-facebook-comments
Plenty more choice stuff in there, and great SPG to boot. Congratulations to the courageous UKIP voters of Redditch for electing that.
Edit: here is the whole joy of it: https://www.facebook.com/dave.small.188?fref=ts
Now, not to turn ourselves into GCHQ or anything, but I wonder: how hard can it be to find more of this for other elected members? How many are there, 200ish?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...stigation-racist-homophobic-facebook-comments
Dave Small on Facebook in June said:
Plenty more choice stuff in there, and great SPG to boot. Congratulations to the courageous UKIP voters of Redditch for electing that.
Edit: here is the whole joy of it: https://www.facebook.com/dave.small.188?fref=ts
Now, not to turn ourselves into GCHQ or anything, but I wonder: how hard can it be to find more of this for other elected members? How many are there, 200ish?
you go on and on and on about Ukip, you even have a blog about them don't you? why do you expect the press to be any different, you're lapping it up and so are lots of other people.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That is basically what hope not hate have spent the last 6 months doing.
and this is just nonsense, is The Guardian fixated on an anti-labour perspective, or the Mirror, or The People, The Indy, the New Statesman, or even BBC or Channel 4 news. The Tory press are fixated on an anti-labour position, thats not really very surprising or interesting.
mauvais
on reddit or something
They've done a pretty shitty job of it then if it only comes out after election.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Only comes out after the election ? The last four weeks the papers have been filled probably every single day by multiple stories about stupid facebook comments from UKIP members fed them by HnH - never mi d their own publication other UKIP facebook comments. It's been absolutely relentless. How have you managed to missed it all I wish i'd managed to.
mauvais
on reddit or something
I guess; but on retrospectively looking for 'racist councillor' I find loads of stories I'd never seen. If such a collation exists, it'd have been better if they'd just unfurled it in a single shot of 'X% candidates saying unpleasant things'.
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