Ukip - why are they gaining support?
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butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Who on earth told you that? They're on 8% and in 4th position.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
UKIP candidate in homophobia and radical religious demagoguery shocker
Oh wait he's a Tory
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/05/2...nd-questions-how-he-can-represent-lgbt-voters
Oh wait he's a Tory
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/05/2...nd-questions-how-he-can-represent-lgbt-voters
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yes, to overtake the greens - the greens on 10%. Not to be the the main opposition. The only way you can come up with that scenario is by lumping 80+% of the vote into non-opposition and bundling the greens into that opposition. We need accurate maps here.
(And i bet you'd be moaning about the dutch socialists maoist past as well if you only know about it)
Actually, you just c&Ped that guardian article with no link or attribution in your post i was replying to.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
You might expect this happens where a party is hopelessly off its turf but Labour have to pay people to deliver in Lambeth ffs; that's a working class inner London borough where they dominate the council and they don't have enough members to deliver their stuff.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
wot?Has this been posted yet?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
are you stupid as well as mental?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Of course, our homophobic anti-racist fingers and his edlnews mates (fresh from buying a bag of mad frogs from jasna and boasting about it to all and sundry) tweet this as:
"mental", "thick", such unpleasant slurs, I hope you are not such a nasty creature in real life.
I got that leaflet. According to the labour office (I rang the number on the leaflet) yups actually said this, which I don't believe. I asked them about their policy and was just pointed to the job guarantee scheme. They vote couldn't explain how it works.Has this been posted yet?
It seems to me labour are tying to position themselves oddly as more right -or centrist as perhaps they see it - than UK IP. Ending a requirement to look for work is a fringe policy to most people.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Has this been posted yet?
I've got a better one than that but I don't know how to post pics here!
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
it is true - particularly the Yemeni community - I've heard it (indirectly) from people canvassing for tusc. they're concerned cos recently a lot of eastern Europeans have been moving in and theyrr worried about resources being stretched. Maxine expecting to lose votes.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
I was in a sullen mood the other night so may have indulged in some hyperbole, yours is a more serious analysis. I guess it depends on what parts of the left you're talking about - it just strikes me I know a lot of supposed revolutionary socialists who I see on demo's and in meetings who have literally never gone and done a campaign stall or knocked doors on an estate - any estate, I'm not talking about rough ones. A lot of that as you say is that they think they'll be challenged (its also that some just think thats "boring") but perhaps more by people they assume to be racist more than anything else. Even if you can get them out now and again, they'll say things like "Don't knock that door, there's an England sticker in the bedroom window, they probably vote BNP".
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
I've met a few asian voters who are/were intending to vote UKIP. I think its easier for us to talk them round than Labour but you can't physically speak to enough to make much difference.
This nearly got me voting UKIP.
UKIP voters determined to overcome challenge of drawing an ‘X’
UKIP voters determined to overcome challenge of drawing an ‘X’
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
OK political Urbs, a quandry that i could use some help with....
being a traditional Brit, i view the European parliament as an expensive talking shop - lots of hot air, lots of moving cardboard boxes around, but bugger all impact on the lives of all at Chez Kebabking - and therefore is not important to me who sits there. however, i'm aware that who sits there has symbolic value, and that elections for it are good weather vanes as to public feeling etc..
so, as someone who wants the UK to remain in the EU, and believes that Labour will eventually promise to hold a referendum in the next parliament - so that however wins the 2015 election there will be a referendum on EU membership - i'm considering voting for UKIP in the European elections today.
i'll explain my thinking, and i'd welcome your critique.
by voting UKIP i signal to the wider EU that there is a problem with how the UK views the EU, that voting UKIP means that problem is profound, and that in order for the UK to remain in the EU, more pro-EU UK politicians need to be able to show the UK electorate at the referendum that the EU has listened to the concerns and has come up with some serious reforms/changes in response.
in effect, that by voting UKIP, i strengthen the negotiating hand of whoever forms the next government and concentrate the minds of the wider EU, meaning changes to the EU become more likely, meaning that in 2017/18 the UK electorate is more likely to vote to remain within the EU rather than leave.
is my logic broadly correct?
(i'm aware that UKIP is a very nasty party with which i share pretty much no political values, i'm aware that a large UKIP vote is likely to diminish how others view the UK, and i'm aware that a large UKIP vote in England might well have an impact on how Scotland sees itself with regards to the independance debate - i'm also aware that UKIP MEP's tend to be utterly useless, but spectacularly expensive..)
being a traditional Brit, i view the European parliament as an expensive talking shop - lots of hot air, lots of moving cardboard boxes around, but bugger all impact on the lives of all at Chez Kebabking - and therefore is not important to me who sits there. however, i'm aware that who sits there has symbolic value, and that elections for it are good weather vanes as to public feeling etc..
so, as someone who wants the UK to remain in the EU, and believes that Labour will eventually promise to hold a referendum in the next parliament - so that however wins the 2015 election there will be a referendum on EU membership - i'm considering voting for UKIP in the European elections today.
i'll explain my thinking, and i'd welcome your critique.
by voting UKIP i signal to the wider EU that there is a problem with how the UK views the EU, that voting UKIP means that problem is profound, and that in order for the UK to remain in the EU, more pro-EU UK politicians need to be able to show the UK electorate at the referendum that the EU has listened to the concerns and has come up with some serious reforms/changes in response.
in effect, that by voting UKIP, i strengthen the negotiating hand of whoever forms the next government and concentrate the minds of the wider EU, meaning changes to the EU become more likely, meaning that in 2017/18 the UK electorate is more likely to vote to remain within the EU rather than leave.
is my logic broadly correct?
(i'm aware that UKIP is a very nasty party with which i share pretty much no political values, i'm aware that a large UKIP vote is likely to diminish how others view the UK, and i'm aware that a large UKIP vote in England might well have an impact on how Scotland sees itself with regards to the independance debate - i'm also aware that UKIP MEP's tend to be utterly useless, but spectacularly expensive..)
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
TBH I'm not so sure how much of a shit the rest of the EU will give about the prospect of the UK leaving - they're already semi-detached anyway. That the country is voting in large numbers for an anti-EU party might just make them give even less of a shit.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
How do you think the UK views the EU? What changes do you think they can or will make to accommodate those views? The trad tory element within UKIP will be keen to see an end to the social chapter and environmental stuff - things they see as a burden to business and red tape. To some extent focusing on immigration is a trojan horse for this kind of thing. How the public view things is different - I'm sure it's a bit more sophisticated than straight bananas and job-stealing benefit snaffling immigrants, but are their concerns matched by the party's agenda? Does relentlessly focusing on Europe let all the neo libs and bankers off the hook, or are they part of the same thing?
DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
Is this really a sure thing? Given that The Rise of the Kippers isn't really to do with the EU but more of a general opportunity to troll the established parties whom everyone now detests. Like when people decided to get RATM to Xmas number one to annoy Simon Cowell.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Well I'm unsure why you believe that there will be a referendum in the nest parliament, I think it most unlikely. All the major parties are committed to the EU and I don't think any of them want to go to a referendum.
Why would the EU care if UKIP are voted in, they weren't bothered when France, Holland and Ireland voted no. They know that all the major UK parties are committed to the EU are will not leave.
Well as I've said above I don't think it will ever happen but I think it's lunatic nonsense to say that the EU wouldn't care about the UK leaving. It would cause huge damage for their project, how would they stop Greece for example breaking off.
Total bollocks.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I know. When I belonged to Streatham CLP in the late '80s/early '90s, there were enough activists to get the entire constituency leafleted in 2-3 evenings. Same with canvassing. Now, the CLP is mostly councillors and an ageing core of activists.
No-one wants to put the effort in for a party that gives them no voice, and that's what Labour now is - a party that isn't constitutionally-required to listen to the membership anymore.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Do yourself a favour, and learn about the German political system before making direct comparisons. Germany has a "leftish" opposition in part due to their federal status. It makes political power more immediate, and makes politicians more accountable. It's a lot different to what we have here.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
IN YOUR FACE, FARAGE:
King Biscuit Time
Well-Known Member
Oh fuck. I wish I'd seen that after I had voted. Much as I hate Farage and UKIP - that comparison is casting him in a favorable light. When I get to the voting booth I'm bound to think of that mop-topped twat and his blue stripey apron and subconsciously think "That Farage isn't such a bad old stick after all X'
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It's certainly the case that Die Linke form a more cohesive broad left opposition in the German Lande than anything we have here, but that's partly to do with German local and regional democracy being more open to "change from below" than our own farcical system.
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