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Ukip - why are they gaining support?

Dogsauce said:
Isn't it presumptuous to assume UKIP are drawing significantly large support from marginalised workers, and also that those influenced by media are somehow ill-educated or naive? It just seems like the same arguments as when people defended BNP voters from placard-waving trots on grounds that these were marginalised people nobody else was speaking for, but I don't see evidence of it being the same demographic. I know there is some support from whatever letters people who measure these things use to designate people at the bottom, but a lot from further up the scale too.

A lot of UKIP support comes from reasonably well-off retired people- look at the rallies/meetings on the TV.

These aren't people whose jobs are threatened by migration, or people who don't usually vote because the system leaves them behind. Some are old-school Tories unhappy with social changes, unhappy with the flimsy PR personas heading up the main parties. Within the activists these aren't struggling outsiders and malcontents.

It's people like my uncle (retired further ed lecturer, good pension, UKIP member) who comes out with stuff about Britain being lost to Sharia law - where does someone living in a nice suburb of Northampton come up with stuff like that? What 'experience' brings forward such opinions so far from the truth? Maybe years of reading Mad Mel in the Mail has hammered this thought in?
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Ahhh, now that actually is a reasonable response. We're not talking about that though. Please go away.
 
Reading about the demographic, the average income of ukip voters is below the national average, and few among the rich vote ukip. A lot of older people. A lot more men than women. They still do far better among white people than non-white. Fear of immigration and immigrants doesn't necessarily correlate that closely with its actual practical consequences for you in particular. 'They're coming over here taking our jobs' actually still isn't resonating anywhere nearly as loudly with younger people who are competing for those jobs as with older people who are not.

Be interesting to see in this election who votes UKIP. If it is predominantly older men again, I think they're not in a very rosy position. Those voters will drift away, and even if they don't they are appealing to a dying sensibility.
 
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littlebabyjesus said:
Reading about the demographic, the average income of ukip voters is below the national average, and few among the rich vote ukip. A lot of older people. A lot more men than women. They still do far better among white people than non-white. Fear of immigration and immigrants doesn't necessarily correlate that closely with its actual practical consequences for you in particular. 'They're coming over here taking our jobs' actually still isn't resonating anywhere nearly as loudly with younger people who are competing for those jobs as with older people who are not.
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All the parties have more white supporters than non-white, except possibly Respect. Do you have any evidence that the "taking our jobs" stuff isn't working on younger people?
 
SpackleFrog said:
All the parties have more white supporters than non-white, except possibly Respect. Do you have any evidence that the "taking our jobs" stuff isn't working on younger people?
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They are doing far better among white people than non-white. UK population is 92 per cent white. UKIP supporters are 98 per cent white. That's a very big difference - it means that UKIP support among non-whites is far below the level among whites. Far, far below.

The evidence for their message not working as well on younger people as on older people is in the demographic of their support, which is skewed markedly towards the over-50s - well over half. I didn't want to link to the Mail, but I'll have to as it's the only place I can find a recent report. Ignore the headline, which is balls. Just look at the figures. Assuming they haven't just pulled those figures out of their arses (and they do quote Populus as a source, tbf), they do reveal certain things.

I suspect that low interest rates eroding the value of pensions may be as big a factor as anything in the disgruntlement of older voters switching to UKIP.
 
The Tories have done everything they can to protect pensioners whilst everyone else takes a bath - they know where their support comes from and that older generations are more likely to see voting as some sort of civic duty.

Politicians don't target the young because they are less likely to vote - though this is probably a bit of a catch-22 - engage with them a bit more and deal with stuff like ridiculous rents and support for education and it might get something back. It's not that there aren't a lot of young people with interest in politics, from twitter bores to EDL marchers.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
They are doing far better among white people than non-white. UK population is 92 per cent white. UKIP supporters are 98 per cent white. That's a very big difference - it means that UKIP support among non-whites is far below the level among whites. Far, far below.

The evidence for their message not working as well on younger people as on older people is in the demographic of their support, which is skewed markedly towards the over-50s - well over half. I didn't want to link to the Mail, but I'll have to as it's the only place I can find a recent report. Ignore the headline, which is balls. Just look at the figures. Assuming they haven't just pulled those figures out of their arses (and they do quote Populus as a source, tbf), they do reveal certain things.

I suspect that low interest rates eroding the value of pensions may be as big a factor as anything in the disgruntlement of older voters switching to UKIP.
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they haven't targeted young people yet, they didn't have much support amongst northern working class, then they started tailoring their propaganda(if not their policies) towards them.
 
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SpineyNorman said:
Well, since they don't have to endure you I imagine it's somewhat more civilised.

. But it's perfectly possible for someone to erroneously think there's a line of causation running from one to the other, just as you erroneously think the media cause people to be wacists. They don't need the papers to tell them that. People can reach conclusions all of their own. As Joe Reilly says, what's not being talked about in the media better accounts for that than right wing tabloids being right wing.

You fucking prole hating green party loon.
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Oh no. You think people have been eroneous? as in wrong? isn't that something you'd think rather aloof in others?

Why do you get such a thrill out of spelling "racist" and "radical" with a "w"?

Do you get a little twinge out of feeling superior in method to those other people who oppose racism but dont quite understand as much as you do?

I don't know why you feel the need to be so personal and abusive, but in regards to class I sell my labour to get by, have never earned even approaching the national average and have no control over the means of production. I'm not self hating.

It's you who are assuming far more of "proles" and presuming to speak for them more than I am. My party is neither here nor there really, I certainly don't evangalise for them here and wouldn't bother to.

Whatever your politics are I've a funny feeling that, like mine, they havent made massive headway. I think we should all be a lot more modest and humble about our positions to be honest.
 
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redsquirrel said:
And there it is, if you criticise the anti-UKIPists you're a racist, a bigot etc. Utterly pathetic.
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Well, SN led off with an "I'd rather UKIP" line, but that doesn't neccessarily make him a critic of anti UKIPists.

But in so far as a double negative makes for a positive one thing should be very clear:

It may not be the most effective politics to describe UKIP as bigots, but the party is abosuletly riddled with bigotry and I have no idea why people seem to be so against it being said. I'd rather speak out against bigotry than constantly snipe and jeer at people for doing so.
 


Leaving aside the grammatical, the main issue here is strongly aligning nation to political belief and assuming power to decide who is and isn't properly of the nation. Reminds me of something, but should we say what it is? No, some people may get angry on the thread. Let's listen to their concerns instead. What if they've gone and lost their identity or something?

Separately, I had a UKIP supporter go onto me tonight about the "multiculturals" (in the context of the carnival stuff earlier in the day). I asked him to expand on any favouritsm he might have for monoculturalism, and what it might entail. He didn't get back to me. perhaps I should have listened to his concerns too, poor thing. I think he only wanted to have a moan about the blacks and stuff really. It would be pathetic to call that racist though.
 
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taffboy gwyrdd said:


Leaving aside the gramatical, the main issue here is strongly aligning nation to political belief and assuming power to decide who is and isn't properly of the nation. Reminds me of something, but should we say what it is? No, some people may get angry on the thread. Let's listen to their concerns instead. What if they've gone and lost their identity or something?

Separately, I had a UKIP supporter go onto me tonight about the "multiculturals", I asked him to expand on any favouritsm he might have for monoculturalism, what it might entail. He didn't get back to me. perhaps I should have listened to his concerns too, poor thing. I think he only wanted to have a moan about the blacks and stuff really. It would be pathetic to call that racist though.
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It's not that it's clearly nationalist sentiment. It's that you KEEP SAYING IT.
 
The magic words that transform UKIP voting racist sheeple into right-on leftists: "You racist cunt! You can't spell*!"

*feel free to replace with comments on clothing, accent, mental health
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...r-news/ukip-oldham-leaflet-racism-row-7148269

note the reference to "white folk", but remember not to say that racist people, seeking to exploit racial differences, are "racist".

It may be a case with logic to it, but it's PCgonemad liberalism to point it out, and can be devestated when someone employs full wit and guile to mis-spell the word with a "w".
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That can't be real. I mean, I believe the leaflet exists and has been distributed, but UKIP can't possibly be that stupid.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
Oh no. You think people have been eroneous? as in wrong? isn't that something you'd think rather aloof in others?

Why do you get such a thrill out of spelling "racist" and "radical" with a "w"?

Do you get a little twinge out of feeling superior in method to those other people who oppose racism but dont quite understand as much as you do?

I don't know why you feel the need to be so personal and abusive, but in regards to class I sell my labour to get by, have never earned even approaching the national average and have no control over the means of production. I'm not self hating.

It's you who are assuming far more of "proles" and presuming to speak for them more than I am. My party is neither here nor there really, I certainly don't evangalise for them here and wouldn't bother to.

Whatever your politics are I've a funny feeling that, like mine, they havent made massive headway. I think we should all be a lot more modest and humble about our positions to be honest.
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Yes. I think people can be wrong sometimes. That's an astounding observation.

This is quickly followed by the equally surprising observation that there's racists in UKIP. It's a good job you're here sir.
 
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J Ed said:
The magic words that transform UKIP voting racist sheeple into right-on leftists: "You racist cunt! You can't spell*!"

*feel free to replace with comments on clothing, accent, mental health
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Don't forget to tell them they're only racist cos The Daily Mail.
 
laptop said:
Anyways. Yesterday I was wondering whether the real motivation of UKIP's funders was not to get the UK out of the EU, but to influence the EU toward an even more capitalist-friendly position. Much the same as Cameron's half-hearted anti-EU stance.
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How?
 
Mation said:
That can't be real. I mean, I believe the leaflet exists and has been distributed, but UKIP can't possibly be that stupid.
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They're not a slickly organised established party machine with media training and on-message spokespeople. As a consequence their twat filtering isn't as good as the other parties.

FWIW I don't see this as a negative, 'Safe' on-message politicians are what a lot of people rail against.

(that's not in any way a defence of twattery, or the fact they at least appear to attract more twats - though I suspect the tories have worse twats, but of a different kind, and more likely to obtain power).
 
Loads on twitter just now about UKIP candidate Bobby Ansar being stabbed and called a Kaffir by Labour thugs*

Certain people are going to fucking lap this up.

*On closer reading - his Labour-voting muslim neighbours
 
SpineyNorman said:
Billy Bragg is doing a #whyImvotingukip pisstake thing. He's retweeting the ones he likes best. Here's a selection:

Retweeted by Billy Bragg
R-Mattz ‏@RealMattLucas 11h
#WhyImVotingUkip Because I like to think that people from other countries who live in mine are the main reason I have failed in life.

Retweeted by Billy Bragg
Keri ‏@kerihw 10h
#WhyImVotingUkip SIk off FibDems an NuLieBores and torees r week abuot they putting mosckes on my kids' schooles and wearin scarfs go home
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They both read like taffboys attempts at satire. I wonder if Lucas understands the meritocratic irony in a person like him - born into privilege - mocking others for being failures in life? Probably not.
 
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King Biscuit Time said:
Loads on twitter just now about UKIP candidate Bobby Ansar being stabbed and called a Kaffir by Labour thugs*

Certain people are going to fucking lap this up.

*On closer reading - his Labour-voting muslim neighbours
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Couldn't have happened at a better time, for the UKIP
 
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