Ukip - why are they gaining support?
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taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Are you going to leave it at that that, you tease?
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Which state?
A flat tax per se is not necessarily a bad idea - it just depends how it's implemented. That's really something for another thread, but simply calling a flat tax fuckwittery is IMHO foolish.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Qatar?
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
It's a fucking terrible idea. It completely fails to recognise many things:
1. The utility of money reduces with income. The first few quid that get you housed, fed, warm, clean, clothed and mobile are the key to survival. The next are used to improve the quality of your housing, food, heating, clothing, mode of transport and to chuck a few luxuries in like holidays or better entertainment. Spending after that becomes increasingly trivial, such that people are willing to spends tens of thousands to fly their hairdresser half way around the world for one night.
2. Taxation pays for the economy that taxpayers earn money from. If there were no reason to be based here, the rich would go to Somalia where there are no taxes. Those that reap disproportionate reward from the economy should pay disproportionately towards its costs (of providing a literate, numerate, and often highly trained, healthy workforce, a criminal justice system overwhelmingly focused on protecting property and enforcing contracts, a sophisticated communications and transport infrastructure, a government that pimps us out around the world and underwrites their bad gambling debts, you know, those little things).
3. Income inequality reduces the capacity for capitalist growth. Rich people save their money by investing in future bubbles which will burst and ruin us all, poor people spend it on things that other people need to be in work to provide, like nice food and clothes and going out more often. It is harmful in every conceivable way to allow very large income gaps to arise, and taxation is the way the gap can be prevented from getting too wide.
4. If what you actually mean is if we had equal wages for all, then ignore the above. I agree.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
There is no way to sensibly implement a flat tax, unless you are arguing that it should be flat with respect to utility rather than face value, given that you quoted that bit? I would still argue that it should be progressive still, but strict utility value would certainly give us a much more progressive system than we have now.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Oops. Sounds like I'd better go into maverick politics, then
this hat is becoming increasingly popular with wannabe mavericks. Galloway has a leather one.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Quartz said:
What did you do during the poll tax? Good idea done badly?
http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk...tory-17372074-detail/story.html#axzz2PooF3pCU
Over 300 at the last one in December in Boston, if they were from just the local area that is substantial, it is more than the BT protests in my city..
Over 300 at the last one in December in Boston, if they were from just the local area that is substantial, it is more than the BT protests in my city..
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Bingo - boston has a large independent vote (coming out of the bypass protests) that they want to hoover up.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Lincolnshire does generally, weird place.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This move is potentially is a big problem for them on local level, because this sort of thing (the anti-immigration protest i mean) is going to be led/ran by local far-right cranks which allows UKIP to simply be moved back into then the loon camp (i think the BNP was much more successful at adopting this local approach and had a lot more 'integrity' and acceptance as a result, whereas UKIP are still currently seen as outsiders locally - whilst acceptable to vote for on the natioaal level). I would expect to see the centre keeping a close eye on local initiatives such as this for the next few years.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
They're also telling porkies on HS2, do I see a pattern of dishonesty emerging here?
http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2013/04/07-ukip-set-to-make-hs2.html
http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2013/04/07-ukip-set-to-make-hs2.html
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Flat tax is highly regressive even in the first instance. In practice it is more so, because essentials are going up higher than average inflation, which is not likely to change. Higher paid people get better accountants making it more regressive again.
The appeal of flat tax is that it is simple, thus appealing to the simple of mind.
I recall that it was the system introduced in Iraq when Paul Bremmer ran the show for a short time. That worked well.
UKIP's attraction for the flat tax underlines one of their weakest philosophical points - they are not in favour of independence at all. They would have us at least as dependent on the same market-cult whims that have screwed up the global economy. Neither are they are they a credible alternative to larger parties - again they bow at the same altar, that of the finance gods. Much of their current appeal is founded in delusion and hoax.
The appeal of flat tax is that it is simple, thus appealing to the simple of mind.
I recall that it was the system introduced in Iraq when Paul Bremmer ran the show for a short time. That worked well.
UKIP's attraction for the flat tax underlines one of their weakest philosophical points - they are not in favour of independence at all. They would have us at least as dependent on the same market-cult whims that have screwed up the global economy. Neither are they are they a credible alternative to larger parties - again they bow at the same altar, that of the finance gods. Much of their current appeal is founded in delusion and hoax.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
I think UKIPs' tax plan had a high starting threshold (£15,000?) which mitigated some of the damage at the lower end, but this is bound to further fuel rhetoric about "those who pay in and those who don't". Plus all the wealthy with a massively increased amount of spare cash will be certain to throw this into things like housing speculation which will take a lot more out from those at the bottom end and middle of the working population. The 'spare cash' the rich have is often harmful, it's less likely to be invested in nice-sounding things like 'job creation' and more likely these days to be used for speculation in property, foodstuffs and mineral resources, upping the cost for everyone globally. I'd prefer government to take this and spend it on things that benefit society - physical and social infrastructure, proper care and housing.
Spalding,Boston and Wisbech are all massively dependant on Seasonal Agricultural work for their ecconomies.Large employers contract out their recruitment policies to gangmasters, who recruit directly from overseas and distort the housing market by buying up and converting previous single family houses into multi let units.They then make a premium on renting them to their workers.Surplus capital then goes into further property aquisitions.
At a tangent but i saw the tories have/are planning to abolish the Wages Agricultural Board that protects the pay and conditions of some of the poorest paid workers in the country
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/25/withering-assault-wages-race-bottom
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
did they put a white guy in a head-dress, rather than google for a picture of an actual native American?Check this:
I fucken loves it
Idiots. For a flat tax, £15K is far too low for a family unless it's transferable from a non-wage-earning partner to a wage-earning partner. You want somewhere about £40K.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
UKIP get 23% in Wigan council by election
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