Ukip - why are they gaining support?

[weepiper]

That interview was revealing not in that it's some silver bullet proving Farage is a racist, but because it nakedly shows his feelings about class. 'You know the difference'. The difference is, the Romanians in his scenario are poor.

 

[weltweit]

That interview was revealing not in that it's some silver bullet proving Farage is a racist, but because it nakedly shows his feelings about class. 'You know the difference'. The difference is, the Romanians in his scenario are poor.

I hadn't thought of that as an angle.
I thought he was saying they were gypsies and criminal and therefore bad news

 

[butchersapron]

That interview was revealing not in that it's some silver bullet proving Farage is a racist, but because it nakedly shows his feelings about class. 'You know the difference'. The difference is, the Romanians in his scenario are poor.

Germans are people he works with - Romanians are people who clean up after him nf the germans (like Paxman, the great liberal hero who kept two in his garage). He wouldn't care if it were the other way round - the key point is that some are rich and some are poor.

 

[Quartz]

and the reply:

Dear John Lyndon Sullivan,
Hello! I’m one of those whatevers you’ve read about...
continued: http://notsowunderbar.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/open-letter.html

Mr Sullivan might care to reflect that gays were persecuted for a long time and it didn't stop people being gay. He might also care to reflect that the persecution came to a crescendo in WW2 - the Jews weren't Hitler's only target.

Mr Sullivan, of course, is an idiot.

 

[butchersapron]

Why would he? Did you read what he wrote?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That interview was revealing not in that it's some silver bullet proving Farage is a racist, but because it nakedly shows his feelings about class. 'You know the difference'. The difference is, the Romanians in his scenario are poor.

Yes, but then racism has always been closely intertwined with class issues. Anti-Irish feeling was always essentially a form of racism in all its important aspects, but also most certainly rooted in class assumptions.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes, but then racism has always been closely intertwined with class issues. Anti-Irish feeling was always essentially a form of racism in all its important aspects, but also most certainly rooted in class assumptions.

Whose anti-irish racism? What a totally daft thing to say. Was working class anti-irish feeling based on class snobbishness? In manchester? In In Brum? In Bristol? Or in the media?

Of course, for those who only see things through the media we only have the past media to reply on - we'll get some cartoons from papers only the middle class read at that time in response to this i suspect- ones where irish are monkeys.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Whose anti-irish racism? What a totally daft thing to say.

That which was widespread in 50s and 60s Britain. This is the same kind of thing - zoning in on a nationality and assigning traits to it - laziness or criminality.

I'll turn this on its head. You don't see equivalents between the attitudes of the likes of Farage towards Eastern Europeans and attitudes towards the Irish a generation ago? Really? If not, then it's not such a daft thing to say, is it?

 

[weepiper]

Yes, but then racism has always been closely intertwined with class issues. Anti-Irish feeling was always essentially a form of racism in all its important aspects, but also most certainly rooted in class assumptions.

Not in Glasgow it wasn't. The most fervent anti-Irish activity/feelings were deeply rooted among people who found themselves in direct competition for work from the Irish immigrants.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Not in Glasgow it wasn't. The most fervent anti-Irish activity/feelings were deeply rooted among people who found themselves in direct competition for work from the Irish immigrants.

And that is the same tension that is feeding certain aspects of UKIP's support.

 

[butchersapron]

That which was widespread in 50s and 60s Britain. This is the same kind of thing - zoning in on a nationality and assigning traits to it - laziness or criminality.

What the hell had that to do with what you said. You have this back to front. Have you any experience of this? You are miles off. All that post does is suggest what prejudice is.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What the hell had that to do with what you said. You have this back to front. Have you any experience of this? You are miles off. All that post does is suggest what prejudice is.

Experience of what? Farage is talking up fears of Romanian criminality. No, I have no experience of that. I do have experience of anti-Eastern European feeling. I have seen this, and if you ask any Eastern European about their experience here they will tell you about it. 'Fucking Poles' muttered under the breath. It is happening.

 

[butchersapron]

And that is the same tension that is feeding certain aspects of UKIP's support.

What, upper class based racism. Wtf?
Are you suggesting that UKIP style racism (as you see it, moral racism) is really superiors looking down on what they see as inferiors on a class base - or not. If not, have another look at your post here. And you didn't come back on your earlier equation of the BNP with UKIP did you?

 

[weepiper]

Is there a point somewhere lbj? Because if there is, I've missed it.

 

[butchersapron]

Experience of what? Farage is talking up fears of Romanian criminality. No, I have no experience of that. I do have experience of anti-Eastern European feeling. I have seen this, and if you ask any Eastern European about their experience here they will tell you about it. 'Fucking Poles' muttered under the breath. It is happening.

I asked you if you had any experience of the class based racism that you suggest anti-irish racism was based on. It wasn't based on that. That is such a bad misreading of anti-irish racism in the uk it throws your whole understanding of what racism in this country is into question.

 

[hipipol]

are you trying to prove humans are stupid by proving that you're stupid?

No, not prove it
But dont deny the fact
Do you think that humans are generally wise do you?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

No, not prove it
But dont deny the fact
Do you think that humans are generally wise do you?

you are generally the thickest person on here by quite some margin.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Whose anti-irish racism? What a totally daft thing to say. Was working class anti-irish feeling based on class snobbishness? In manchester? In In Brum? In Bristol? Or in the media?

Of course, for those who only see things through the media we only have the past media to reply on - we'll get some cartoons from papers only the middle class read at that time in response to this i suspect- ones where irish are monkeys.

 

[butchersapron]

Reminds me, must learn my lines for my nephew's christening.

 

[hipipol]

you are generally the thickest person on here by quite some margin.

I bow to your wisdom oh Great One

 

[Idris2002]

 

[stowpirate]

Germans are people he works with - Romanians are people who clean up after him nf the germans (like Paxman, the great liberal hero who kept two in his garage). He wouldn't care if it were the other way round - the key point is that some are rich and some are poor.

Some Germans have very similar attitudes. It would be interesting to get Kirsten Mehr opinion on Turkish workers in Germany?

 

[treelover]

It mightn't bother the protest voters, but major success in the Euro Elections will also ironically channel massive EU funds to UKIP which they can use to build up their profile.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes, but then racism has always been closely intertwined with class issues. Anti-Irish feeling was always essentially a form of racism in all its important aspects, but also most certainly rooted in class assumptions.

Anti-Irish racism in the UK has, at most, only very shallow class roots. The main impeller of anti-Irish racism has always been the "othering" of Catholicism, and the inane assumption by some that Irish = bog-trotting, kid-spawning, ignorant Catholics.
There's very rarely, except in those areas with significant pre-existing sectarian issues, been anything like a class element to it that went beyond the usual bourgeois distaste for and disgust at the proletariat.

 

[sim667]

That interview was revealing not in that it's some silver bullet proving Farage is a racist, but because it nakedly shows his feelings about class. 'You know the difference'. The difference is, the Romanians in his scenario are poor.

Personally I took that to mean they are a different ethnic background and skin colour, not because they're from a poorer country.

 

[butchersapron]

Personally I took that to mean they are a different ethnic background and skin colour, not because they're from a poorer country.

He meant, germans = money, jobs, small discreet family
Romanians = spongers, thieves, huge noisy families

The nations could be reversed - he just mean those types. It's a class snob thing. Not a race thing.

 

[phildwyer]

skin colour

Nail: head. Those Roma johnnies look positively subcontinental.

 

[Pickman's model]

Nail: head. Those Roma johnnies look positively subcontinental.

 

[sim667]

He meant, germans = money, jobs, small discreet family
Romanians = spongers, thieves, huge noisy families

The nations could be reversed - he just mean those types. It's a class snob thing. Not a race thing.

Or both, meaning one but implying the other.

Roma gypsies are treated as an underclass across a vast majority of europe (if not all), he's just taking that underlying racism and holding it up as the poster boy for anti immigration in the UK…

 

[butchersapron]

Or both, meaning one but implying the other.

Roma gypsies are treated as an underclass across a vast majority of europe (if not all), he's just taking that underlying racism and holding it up as the poster boy for anti immigration in the UK…

He meant one but is happy to let the other ride for now. And he's really not holding up the forcible removal of roma camps in france as the way to go here, nor the building of roma walls. nor anti-roma pogroms. He's on about germans being richer than ROMANIANS.