Ukip - why are they gaining support?

[taffboy gwyrdd]

I asked why the spgb or sp deserve a spot on it rather than ukip. I didn't mention the level of coverage ukip have.

Fair enough. Soz, though you often seem to argue that the coverage is justified. It's not.

I don't have an anti UKIP blog. I did a blogpiece about UKIP last year, not even majorly anti and on a wordpress I don't use as much now. Was going to do an update but dunno if I can be bothered.

http://stevedrant.wordpress.com/2013/07/18/ukip-observations/

 

[Awesome Wells]

And how many councillors do each of those parties have? What is each party currently polling? Your stupid anti-UKIPism appears to be blinding you to the fact that UKIP are now certainly the fourth, and on some measures the third, biggest political party in Britain.

But leaving that aside perhaps you could tell me what you want to achieve with your anti-UKIPsim? For all that he's been shown to be a lying moron Fingers was at least honest enough to admit that his goal was simply to shore up support for Lab/Tories/LibDems, the very parties that are currently attacking labour. And that's all this stupid fucking anti-UKIP wankery would amount to, even if it was successful, which clearly it isn't.

You have misunderstood; i do not say they should have no place at all in the debate, or on the shows like QT.

They have been gifted airtime and a spotlight the likes of the greens would kill for,while having no MPs.

I doubt they are the fourth largest party, and if they are the difference between third and fourth place is very big indeed. I bet the greens are bigger (hopefully! ).

If that isn't the case, how are other parties, never mind one with actual MPs, ever to get their voice heard? If you are going to host a debate for the European elections then either invite everyone standing or it's not democracy.

I didn't set out to achieve anything by posting other than vent my spleen at the painfully apparent bias towardukip.

 

[chilango]

Distasteful as you may find it, UKIP have a mandate justifying these appearances.

Complaining that the party leading the polls for the upcoming European elections get more airtime than minor parties is a fruitless activity IMO.

 

[brogdale]

Distasteful as you may find it, UKIP have a mandate justifying these appearances.

Complaining that the party leading the polls for the upcoming European elections get more airtime than minor parties is a fruitless activity IMO.

Yep, the fact that a "balanced" panel is drawn exclusively from the parties of capital would seem to be a more fruitful avenue of criticism.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I don't think Ukip get treated seriously enough by the media given the support they have while even having one interview with Nellist is probably more than they strictly need to do

 

[Awesome Wells]

Distasteful as you may find it, UKIP have a mandate justifying these appearances.

Complaining that the party leading the polls for the upcoming European elections get more airtime than minor parties is a fruitless activity IMO.

I don't think they have a mandate to the extent they are given and I am fed up with hearing Farage talk everyone down. He doesn't listen. I can't count the number of times people have tried correcting him and all he does is pull shit out of his arse about millions given to the EU each day as if we were on our knees throwing money at some portly ruddy faced Prussian with a monocle. The figure we give is a tenth of what he constantly claims and isn't a one way street either.

And so Nuttalls was on the other Dimbelby show last night and came out with this corker, in respect of wind power on the issue of fracking: "it makes richer people richer and poor people poorer". No discussion, no evidence just populist shite. Renewable enery in the world of ukip? Nope. This kind of shite frustrates me. And people applaud! Idiots support this crap because the proliferation of these views is greater than the alternative, whatever it may be. There is no balance in these debates.

 

[chilango]

Yep, the fact that a "balanced" panel is drawn exclusively from the parties of capital would seem to be a more fruitful avenue of criticism.

Tbh A "fairer" reflection of the views of the electorate would mean about half the panellists seats' being left empty by guests deciding they had better things to do...

 

[brogdale]

Herdson, (on Smithson), discussing how desperate the vermin seem to sabotage/keep Farage away from any GE leaders' TV debates.
Cameron's "2,3,5" ploy giving Farage just one platform...on an equal footing to the Greens.....

...is it really plausible to place UKIP alongside the Greens if, as polls suggest is eminently possible, Farage leads his party to victory in the European elections?

The scale of that achievement should not be understated: no party other than the Conservatives or Labour has won any national election in over a century. For comparison, the biggest election the Liberals or Lib Dems have won since 1945 is Devon County Council. To class UKIP in the third tier is asking for trouble – which may very well be the plan.

 

[killer b]

Yep, the fact that a "balanced" panel is drawn exclusively from the parties of capital would seem to be a more fruitful avenue of criticism.

which non-capital parties have sufficient support to warrant representation?

 

[brogdale]

which non-capital parties have sufficient support to warrant representation?

check-mate! and that's how it works.

 

[Awesome Wells]

which non-capital parties have sufficient support to warrant representation?

If you're on the ballot paper and you're not invited to a discussion on the election...democracy has failed you.

 

[killer b]

I'm not sure if there's room on QT for all of them.

 

[chilango]

If you're on the ballot paper and you're not invited to a discussion on the election...democracy has failed you.

TV chat shows are not democracy.

 

[gosub]

If you're on the ballot paper and you're not invited to a discussion on the election...democracy has failed you.

there does need to be a balance, if you give as much time in a debate to the monster raving looney and every other minority candidate you arent going to have time to cover much ground in a debate

 

[butchersapron]

If you're on the ballot paper and you're not invited to a discussion on the election...democracy has failed you.

Yet you're calling for the party leading the polling for that election to be thrown out of the same discussion. What principles are you invoking here in your defence of democracy?

Btw - UKIP has 25 000 more members than the greens, more councillors, more MEP and many many more voters.

 

[butchersapron]

And another thing wells and his types miss about farage and his qt appearances - the other panelists (and presenter and audience) do their bit to make discussion revolve around him and his party with their relentless (and ineffective) attacks. In fact, what they do is what wells does on here just writ large and in public.

 

[butchersapron]

Guess what these figures are:

UKIP 41K
CONSERVATIVES 4K
SNP 3484
LABOUR 3K
LIBDEMS 968

 

[teqniq]

TV chat shows are not democracy.

We don't really live in one either.

a democracy that is, not a chat show

 

[gosub]

We don't really live in one either.

a democracy that is, not a chat show

just coz they don't give you a free parker pen for turning up to vote

 

[redsquirrel]

You have misunderstood; i do not say they should have no place at all in the debate, or on the shows like QT.

They have been gifted airtime and a spotlight the likes of the greens would kill for,while having no MPs.

I doubt they are the fourth largest party, and if they are the difference between third and fourth place is very big indeed. I bet the greens are bigger (hopefully! ).

How are they not the fourth party? They have been polling ahead of the LibDems for the best part of two years, last year they took 23%, just behind the Tories and well ahead of the LDs, and absolutely miles ahead of the Greens. This year they are in with a shout of placing first in the euro elections.

Christ, this is precisely why you and the rest of your idiot friends are getting beaten into the ground by UKIP. Not only are your politics shite, not only is your strategy not just stupid but totally counter effective but you really are deluded bullshitting morons.

 

[Awesome Wells]

I'm not sure if there's room on QT for all of them.

Deflate Farage's ego, you'll find some room.

 

[butchersapron]

Deflate Farage's ego, you'll find some room.

See, all you have in response to a serious point is to abuse farage. Worthless unless you're offering something else beyond whining.

And let's get one thing clear here - two month ago, ofcom ruled that in election coverage for the european elections UKIP must receive the exact same amount of media and news coverage as labour, tories and lib-dems - that these four are 'the major parties':

We have consulted on an appropriate approach for determining the composition of the list of major parties ahead of the elections taking place on 22 May 2014.

Our decision is that the United Kingdom Independence Party ("UKIP") should be added to the list of major parties in England and in Wales for the 2014 European Parliament elections.

In news and current affairs election programming that focuses on the European Parliamentary elections across England, Wales and Scotland (i.e. Great Britain) as a whole, UKIP will be treated as a major party across the whole of England, Wales and Scotland (i.e. Great Britain).

 

[Awesome Wells]

Christ, this is precisely why you and the rest of your idiot friends are getting beaten into the ground by UKIP. Not only are your politics shite, not only is your strategy not just stupid but totally counter effective but you really are deluded bullshitting morons.

NOne of this tired screed makes any sense; try explaining yourself you daft twat. I post on a message board that Farage has probably never even heard of and that somehow is giving UKIP a victory? Get real ffs.

And to whom are you referring when you say 'idiot friends'? Back up this shit.

 

[Awesome Wells]

there does need to be a balance, if you give as much time in a debate to the monster raving looney and every other minority candidate you arent going to have time to cover much ground in a debate

That's a distraction. The monster raving loony party may be a joke but they are part of democracy. Either you have it for everyone or for noone. Ok I think most people would agree there are extremes, either harmless or dangerous, but what is acheived by marginalising people, and who decides?

 

[butchersapron]

Ofcom.

 

[Awesome Wells]

TV chat shows are not democracy.

QT isn't a chat show.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Too old a story to matter now?

 

[killer b]

QT isn't a chat show.

how sweet.

 

[Awesome Wells]

how sweet.

Is condescension your only argument?

You seem intent on constantly missing the point: I didn't say it was a heavyweight slice of politica analysis. But whether you like it or not, it is a programme where politicians discuss, to one extent or another, the issues of the day. I don't think it's not biased and I have no doubt the questions are selected, possibly even the audience. That doesn't change the fact that it has pretty high ranking party members being asked to voice their view on whatever. That's not a chat show; they dont' discuss their movie career, sing their latest pop song, or talk about hwo they got into acting.

 

[ViolentPanda]

And how many councillors do each of those parties have? What is each party currently polling? Your stupid anti-UKIPism appears to be blinding you to the fact that UKIP are now certainly the fourth, and on some measures the third, biggest political party in Britain.

But leaving that aside perhaps you could tell me what you want to achieve with your anti-UKIPsim? For all that he's been shown to be a lying moron Fingers was at least honest enough to admit that his goal was simply to shore up support for Lab/Tories/LibDems, the very parties that are currently attacking labour. And that's all this stupid fucking anti-UKIP wankery would amount to, even if it was successful, which clearly it isn't.

IMO part of the problem is that (much as the anti-UKIPpers protest otherwise), they're still looking at UKIP through an anti-fascist lens, and using the same tactics that were used against the BNP in B & D. The big issue with that is that while some of UKIP's councillors and candidates are indeed racist scum, not all of them are - many of them are bog-standard hard-right populists who think that Hitler and Nazism were horrific, and that Fascism is a Dago perversion. They may be "little Britain" Xenophobes, but their combination of rhetoric and (extremely) amorphous policy intentions are currently attractive to a whole skew of the electorate, from disengaged and/or disenchanted Tories, to old-fashioned Labour rightists.
Doing sensationalised exposés of UKIPpers won't work. Part of the reason such actions worked against Griffin's mob, is that the BNP were trying to hide a lot of baggage. It was simple to point up glaring contradictions between public and private rhetoric , and make political points from that. With a majority of UKIP's candidates and councillors, their dirty laundry is already public, so the same game doesn't work - in fact it looks petty and pathetic.
I hope that some of the more voluble "UKIP are fascist Nazi racists" types realise that, before May 2015.