Ukip - why are they gaining support?

[Louis MacNeice]

I reckon NF quite enjoys life in Bruxelles and wouldn't be keen to give it up.

You think Farage would rather be an MEP than an MP....why? I think he's made the right call in not going for Newark but that is in no small part because he does want to be an MP.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[SpackleFrog]

Helmer was picked at a local hustings (as things should be, and a marked contrast to the Tory parachute), so I don't think it implies any particular strategy - I don't think they're that organised or scheming. It's one of their (few) charms.

There's the risk that if Helmer wins then he'll become a different focus to nige and that might not be useful to the party, particularly with some of crap he's come out with (alongside the comments highlighted in the media there's tons more lower-level reactionary bullshit). Can't see him appealing to younger voters, but then they vote in fewer numbers and UKIP don't need them or have to act on their concerns (similar strategy to the current government in that respect, pensioners 'triple locked', EMA scrapped).

It's a valid point - maybe they just don't have the kind of party machine approach when it comes to selecting candidates.

I think they probably will need serious party machinery to survive though.

 

[treelover]

As the Major from Fawlty Towers was unavailable UKIP have selected leading fuckloon Roger Helmer to fight the Newark by-election

just read that Helmer used to be chairman of the Monday Club, wish the media would highlight just how many of the UKIP candidates are former right wing Tories.

 

[treelover]

Helmer was picked at a local hustings (as things should be, and a marked contrast to the Tory parachute), so I don't think it implies any particular strategy - I don't think they're that organised or scheming. It's one of their (few) charms.

There's the risk that if Helmer wins then he'll become a different focus to nige and that might not be useful to the party, particularly with some of crap he's come out with (alongside the comments highlighted in the media there's tons more lower-level reactionary bullshit). Can't see him appealing to younger voters, but then they vote in fewer numbers and UKIP don't need them or have to act on their concerns (similar strategy to the current government in that respect, pensioners 'triple locked', EMA scrapped).

Latest poll, 10% would vote UKIP in GE

 

[butchersapron]

I think you mean the far worse Freedom Association.

just read that Helmer used to be chairman of the Monday Club, wish the media would highlight just how many of the UKIP candidates are former right wing Tories.

 

[butchersapron]

Latest poll, 10% would vote UKIP in GE

No, circa 15%

 

[youngian]

wish the media would highlight just how many of the UKIP candidates are former right wing Tories.

I thought that was a given.

In order for Cameron to give the Tories the veneer of being a moderate centre right party he's glad to see the back of the likes of Helmer. Unfortunately the rise of UKIP has seen this strategy bite him on the arse and he going to have a difficult time facing both ways at the GE.

 

[butchersapron]

Good piece this:

The media's failure to neutralise Ukip can only be good for democracy

The dominant political parties and the mainstream media collusively concerted the attack on Ukip. Never has the management of what is somewhat hyperbolically called "the clash of ideas", conducted by the opinion-formers and gatekeepers of debate, been so clear. Rarely have the tactics to maintain argument within acceptable bounds been more obvious.

What emerges from the shameful way in which "debate" has been manipulated, is that the hold of the media over the imagination of the people is more circumscribed than its practitioners believe, so maladroit has been their management of political news. Their pride has proved false pride: the threadbare efforts to delegitimise Ukip demonstrates only the desperation with which their overwrought labours are pursued.

A more positive interpretation would be that the ineffectual attempts to destroy Ukip show the growing fragility of the carefully crafted management of what is sometimes called "the national conversation". It suggests that in the future, there may be space for a more genuine plurality of ideas, views and politics than the carefully scripted, staged "rough and tumble" without content that masquerades as democracy in the rich world.

 

[treelover]

Jeremy Seabrook is a great writer/sociologist

 

[treelover]

Major UKIP Rally in London tonight, Westminster, apparently this will show the 'real face' of UKIP, diversity, etc.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Good piece this:

The media's failure to neutralise Ukip can only be good for democracy

I don't much accept that it has been a "concerted attack" as much as it is a fascination with the sensationalist. Of course it hasn't worked, becuase a lot of the support is akin to (not my metaphor) an 11 year old revelling in a new swearword they've found.

All it adds to is the sense of an establishment touted alternative to the establishment, a systemic siphoning of dissent into politics that are no threat to the establishment at all. The left opponenents can get sucked into a similar trap, but are more effective when outlining actual policy that is reactionary and anti working class. Such an approach tends to get less MSM coverage, for obvious systemic reasons (they support such policy and wouldn't present it as "bad").

The general nature of the current hype around the Euros was entirely predictable, though the scale has surprised even me.

But I don't think they'll hold 15% in the generals. 5 to 10 would be my pitch, probably the low end of that. The hype will die down somewhat, the "vote UKIP get Milliband" message will have some effect.

But most of all, I hope people continue to raise the anti working class, anti women and other absolutely demonstrable negatives of the party, along with the sense of general fraud and hoax.

After all, they did very well in the last Euros. What astonishing earthquake has there been in the establishment as a consequence? We have a tory government that is systemically corrupt and consistently gets away with it. Wow, that showed 'em.

 

[butchersapron]

15% is in the general election not euros.

You've just done all that Seabrook pointed out is not working and won't work. Treating adults like children to be thrown to this side and that by the media and establishment. Did you bother reading it before replying? Why the fuck don't people just do that?

 

[gosub]

I don't much accept that it has been a "concerted attack" as much as it is a fascination with the sensationalist. Of course it hasn't worked, becuase a lot of the support is akin to (not my metaphor) an 11 year old revelling in a new swearword they've found.

All it adds to is the sense of an establishment touted alternative to the establishment, a systemic siphoning of dissent into politics that are no threat to the establishment at all. The left opponenents can get sucked into a similar trap, but are more effective when outlining actual policy that is reactionary and anti working class. Such an approach tends to get less MSM coverage, for obvious systemic reasons (they support such policy and wouldn't present it as "bad").

The general nature of the current hype around the Euros was entirely predictable, though the scale has surprised even me.

But I don't think they'll hold 15% in the generals. 5 to 10 would be my pitch, probably the low end of that. The hype will die down somewhat, the "vote UKIP get Milliband" message will have some effect.

But most of all, I hope people continue to raise the anti working class, anti women and other absolutely demonstrable negatives of the party, along with the sense of general fraud and hoax.

After all, they did very well in the last Euros. What astonishing earthquake has there been in the establishment as a consequence? We have a tory government that is systemically corrupt and consistently gets away with it. Wow, that showed 'em.

If it hasn't been a concerted attack then we are being lead to a position where politics is to be left to those who every utterance both current and historic must past scrutiny, they cannot get on the wrong side of teachers at school without it being dragged up decades later. People who pass such a test truely would be a political elite, their words and actions so banal out of fear of raising offence that they will represent no real constituency.

Granted trawling facebook is cheap and easy journalism that we will see more of in the future, but I don't think it is being equally applied, and think the electorate would be poorly served if it was -not because people don't have a right to know, but who would step up to plate and run for office. Its bad enough now.

 

[Quartz]

Or we get those who revel in it, like Alan Clark, Boris Johnson, and our favourite gadfly Nigel Farage.

 

[butchersapron]

What?

 

[gosub]

Or we get those who revel in it, like Alan Clark, Boris Johnson, and our favourite gadfly Nigel Farage.

less common now than they were.

 

[The39thStep]

I don't much accept that it has been a "concerted attack" as much as it is a fascination with the sensationalist. Of course it hasn't worked, becuase a lot of the support is akin to (not my metaphor) an 11 year old revelling in a new swearword they've found.

All it adds to is the sense of an establishment touted alternative to the establishment, a systemic siphoning of dissent into politics that are no threat to the establishment at all. The left opponenents can get sucked into a similar trap, but are more effective when outlining actual policy that is reactionary and anti working class. Such an approach tends to get less MSM coverage, for obvious systemic reasons (they support such policy and wouldn't present it as "bad").

The general nature of the current hype around the Euros was entirely predictable, though the scale has surprised even me.

But I don't think they'll hold 15% in the generals. 5 to 10 would be my pitch, probably the low end of that. The hype will die down somewhat, the "vote UKIP get Milliband" message will have some effect.

But most of all, I hope people continue to raise the anti working class, anti women and other absolutely demonstrable negatives of the party, along with the sense of general fraud and hoax.

After all, they did very well in the last Euros. What astonishing earthquake has there been in the establishment as a consequence? We have a tory government that is systemically corrupt and consistently gets away with it. Wow, that showed 'em.

For some members of the working class it's the left not ukip that are seen as anti working class especially on issues such as immigration and the EC.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

If it hasn't been a concerted attack then we are being lead to a position where politics is to be left to those who every utterance both current and historic must past scrutiny, they cannot get on the wrong side of teachers at school without it being dragged up decades later. People who pass such a test truely would be a political elite, their words and actions so banal out of fear of raising offence that they will represent no real constituency.

Granted trawling facebook is cheap and easy journalism that we will see more of in the future, but I don't think it is being equally applied, and think the electorate would be poorly served if it was -not because people don't have a right to know, but who would step up to plate and run for office. Its bad enough now.

I think I get and agree with your broad thrust. But I don't think it has to be "trawl for something that looks bad" as much as "trawl for something that looks controversial". That's what they are interested in. Plus anything with "UKIP" in it gets special treatment at the moment, and that can't be entirely or even mostly attack based.

Case in point of many, front page of "i" today has a quote of a Cameron Aide, in turn quoting a canvassed member of the general public, saying that voting UKIP (from normal tory voting) is like being on a stag do or something. It may have some validity as an analogy but front page news? There's about 2/3 of a page inside on it too, with a comment piece for good measure. Its fucking ridiculous.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

For some members of the working class it's the left not ukip that are seen as anti working class especially on issues such as immigration and the EC.

If they're not seen that way then someone hasn't been informing them of actual policy. Who and why, when there's been so much written about them? Of course, the context is also the revolting attempt to divide the class on lines of colour/ethnicity/race.

 

[butchersapron]

I think I get and agree with your broad thrust. But I don't think it has to be "trawl for something that looks bad" as much as "trawl for something that looks controversial". That's what they are interested in. Plus anything with "UKIP" in it gets special treatment at the moment, and that can't be entirely or even mostly attack based.

Case in point of many, front page of "i" today has a quote of a Cameron Aide, in turn quoting a canvassed member of the general public, saying that voting UKIP (from normal tory voting) is like being on a stag do or something. It may have some validity as an analogy but front page news? There's about 2/3 of a page inside on it too, with a comment piece for good measure. Its fucking ridiculous.

Maybe there should be a body that tells papers what to say?

 

[DotCommunist]

there was a photo of the chancellor of the exchequer sat next to a sex worker with a bowl of cocaine in front of him and nobody gave a tuppeny fuck.

unless they catch Farange in a panzer commanders dress uniform the shits not going to stick

 

[butchersapron]

I think I get and agree with your broad thrust. But I don't think it has to be "trawl for something that looks bad" as much as "trawl for something that looks controversial". That's what they are interested in. Plus anything with "UKIP" in it gets special treatment at the moment, and that can't be entirely or even mostly attack based.

Case in point of many, front page of "i" today has a quote of a Cameron Aide, in turn quoting a canvassed member of the general public, saying that voting UKIP (from normal tory voting) is like being on a stag do or something. It may have some validity as an analogy but front page news? There's about 2/3 of a page inside on it too, with a comment piece for good measure. Its fucking ridiculous.

You're why people vote UKIP. You uncomprehending clown.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Butchers, can you try to discuss stuff without insulting people. Thanks.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Maybe there should be a body that tells papers what to say?

Maybe you should stop making allusions to straw men, though I accept habits can be hard to break.

 

[butchersapron]

Maybe you should stop making allusions to straw men, though I accept habits can be hard to break.

What is your point? You go on and on about the media. Then you go on and on about the media not doing what you like. What do you want? If you think ukip are at 30% because of the media then you need to get out of relating things to the media.

 

[butchersapron]

Butchers, can you try to discuss stuff without insulting people. Thanks.

I do, all the time. The last post was descriptive. Challenge it if you like.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

you frequently insult people. It's needless and unproductive at that level of frequencey.

You didn't challenge anything I said with any substance. Possibly too busy trying to seem superior.

I made two medium sized posts. Either comment on them directly with some detail or don't. But just wading in with "clown" etc. is no use to anyone beyond perhaps your own ego.

 

[butchersapron]

you frequently insult people. It's needless and unproductive at that level of frequencey.

You didn't challenge anything I said with any substance. Possibly too busy trying to seem superior.

I made two medium sized posts. Either comment on them directly with some detail or don't. But just wading in with "clown" etc. is no use to anyone beyond perhaps your own ego.

If your medium size posts required short responses, so be it. They are and were direct comments. And thy both contained a world of substance giving your past posts and my responses - you pompous self regarding clown.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

So, no substance then. Same thing, day in, week, month and year out.

You're the one who casts aspersions so frequently. I could never call you a clown because you take yourself far too seriously, but pompous and self-regarding seem very fitting descriptive epiphets for yourself.

And you're still not dealing with the topics raised. Can we stop making this about our personal opinions of each other please?

 

[butchersapron]

So, no substance then. Same thing, day in, week, month and year out.

You're the one who casts aspersions so frequently. I could never call you a clown because you take yourself far too seriously, but pompous and self-regarding seem very fitting descriptive epiphets for yourself.

And you're still not dealing with the topics raised. Can we stop making this about our personal opinions of each other please?

Wtf is wrong with you?