Ukip - why are they gaining support?

[ViolentPanda]

UKIP won't achieve anything in the real elections, just as the BNP didn't. The mainstream political parties and media will ensure they don't.

What do you mean by "real elections - by-elections and general elections?
If so, that's not a sensible way of looking at things, especially given that UKIP's base are a fuckload more civic-minded and likely to be decent ward councillors than the BNP turned out to be.
If they do manage to establish a decent base in local authorities, and actually hold wards through decent surgery work, then they build a foundation (which the BNP failed to do except in a couple of locales) for contesting constituencies a bit further down the line, and although the 'Kippers have skeletons in their closets, there's not likely to be the same degree of rancidity to their corpses, as the ones the BNP had and have.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

What's your definition of skilled?

I'd be more interested in HC's definition. He's the one who thinks that something is broken because skilled labour is being undercut. That's why I asked about MW; the job of income regulation and border controls is to prevent a race to the bottom. Protecting the rights of people who believe themselves to be "skilled" to charge a premium, not so much.

 

[treelover]

Farrago was a commodities broker and the son of a merchant banker, how has managed to pull off this 'man of the people act'

I don't usually dish voters, but it really looks like in England a certain type of person likes to vote for their 'betters'

but not all UKIP voters of course, but enough.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Farrago was a commodities broker and the son of a merchant banker, how has managed to pull off this 'man of the people act'

I don't usually dish voters, but it really look like in England a certain type of person likes to vote for their 'betters'

but not all UKIP voters of course, but enough.

Why be so sqeemish about dissing voters? A lot of us are thick and/or nasty people. Fuck em.

 

[Delroy Booth]

Here's an intriguing insight into the ideological framework the libertarian right operates within, from an hilarious article entitled "anti-racists are the real racists" http://pol-check.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/why-modern-anti-racists-are-racist.html

 

[Jeff Robinson]

lol

 

[Lo Siento.]

I'd be more interested in HC's definition. He's the one who thinks that something is broken because skilled labour is being undercut. That's why I asked about MW; the job of income regulation and border controls is to prevent a race to the bottom. Protecting the rights of people who believe themselves to be "skilled" to charge a premium, not so much.

I don't see how MW prevents a race to the bottom, it simply establishes what that bottom shall be.

 

[andysays]

Gay marriage? wtf is jenkins on about? (In that article treelover linked to above)

Tory councillor mate in leafy shire says it keeps coming up on the doorstep; elderly conservatives are furious about it.

Maybe someone should explain to them it's only being made optional, not compulsory...

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Maybe someone should explain to them it's only being made optional, not compulsory...

My mate finds that a serious nod works best and then he shifts the conversation to potholes.

 

[weltweit]

Farrago was a commodities broker and the son of a merchant banker, how has managed to pull off this 'man of the people act'

He has a big, simple and clear message and no baggage from years spent mired in ultimately unproductive government.

Pretty easy to get motivated by "out of europe" and "keep the immigrants out".

I don't usually dish voters, but it really looks like in England a certain type of person likes to vote for their 'betters'.

Do you think people think Farage is their better? if he is seen as a man of the people as you posited then he is by definition not one of their betters! I fear you have contradicted yourself in your eagerness to critique the paragon of virtue that is the pint drinking airplane crashing Farage.

 

[redsquirrel]

Here's an intriguing insight into the ideological framework the libertarian right operates within, from an hilarious article entitled "anti-racists are the real racists" http://pol-check.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/why-modern-anti-racists-are-racist.html

like the fact that the Liberal Party (now consisting of two men and a stuffed parrot) is the essence of freedom.

 

[Ranbay]

Banned from fostering kids because you're a UKIP member? Why not take your fight to the European Court of Human Rights?

 

[sptme]

 

[ymu]

This is a modified map of their gains, based on the BBC efforts (click pic for original):



Most gains in very Tory areas. Tory losses split between Labour and UKIP. Some LD gains in the SW.

Only East Sussex lost mostly Labour and got some UKIP.

Very Tory set of locals but the lentil belt is outing itself.

 

[J Ed]

Here's an intriguing insight into the ideological framework the libertarian right operates within, from an hilarious article entitled "anti-racists are the real racists" http://pol-check.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/why-modern-anti-racists-are-racist.html

What's the point in creating nonsense like this when the SHTF they will all run to the EDL which I find exciting because that will make them fair game.

 

[J Ed]

Libertarians are fascists or close enough that they should be treated as such.

 

[brogdale]

Item on "B.H." (R4) this am about the degree to which Farage's appeal is down to the language/expression he uses. Put simply, just that. The 'Farage barage of verbage' was described as anti-jargon, devoid of technocratic/managerialisms and connecting with the punters on an emotive/affective level. Also observation that he was far more likely to offer people some vision, whatever we may think of it, of their future; he talks about their 'journey', rather than his own or his own party's...Clegg.

Obvious challenge for UKIP; how many of their candidates can pull off the Farage gab?

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Obvious challenge for UKIP; how many of their candidates can pull off the Farage gab?

Quite. And how many can avoid sounding crudely racist when talking about European immigration?

 

[happie chappie]

I'd be more interested in HC's definition. He's the one who thinks that something is broken because skilled labour is being undercut. That's why I asked about MW; the job of income regulation and border controls is to prevent a race to the bottom. Protecting the rights of people who believe themselves to be "skilled" to charge a premium, not so much.

There's a big push by the DWP to get people on Job Seeker's Allowance to declare as self-employed - whether or not self employment actually is suitable for that person.

Hey presto the Claimant Count jobless figure comes down. The worker is no longer subject to the NMW and most other employment protections. A win-win for the Government.

Then they are competing with lots of other "self employed" people (many of whom are migrants) for what little work (skilled and unskilled) there is around here and pay rates are forced down.

Basic labour market economics say if the supply of labour exceeds demand there is a downward pressure on wage rates.

 

[butchersapron]

Quite. And how many can avoid sounding crudely racist when talking about European immigration?

What makes you think that they all want to? The exposure of racists in the party didn't exactly harm them on thursday did it?

 

[treelover]

Nigel Farage (current leader & MEP):
“We will never win the nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us”

source
http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/theres-something-about-ukip.pdf

Someone posted this on Socialist Unity, is this right, did he say that?, the poster gives this reference above as evidence

 

[Maurice Picarda]

There's a big push by the DWP to get people on Job Seeker's Allowance to declare as self-employed - whether or not self employment actually is suitable for that person.

Hey presto the Claimant Count jobless figure comes down. The worker is no longer subject to the NMW and most other employment protections. A win-win for the Government.

Then they are competing with lots of other "self employed" people (many of whom are migrants) for what little work (skilled and unskilled) there is around here and pay rates are forced down.

Basic labour market economics say if the supply of labour exceeds demand there is a downward pressure on wage rates.

Yeah, that's a fair point; if people are being pressured into self-employment rather than actively choosing it, assumptions about safety nets need to change.

 

[butchersapron]

Someone posted this on Socialist Unity, is this right, did he say that?, the poster gives this reference above as evidence

The source is Farage's histotic UKIP rival Alan Sked in an interview with the Mail on Sunday after he had stormed off from UKIP after losing internal battles with Farage and then reprinted in a pro-europe pamphlet by a pro-europe group for the 2004 elections. There's no way of knowing if it's true unless Sked says he made it up or Farage admits it. Farage denies it.

 

[treelover]

tx,

 

[nino_savatte]

Farrago was a commodities broker and the son of a merchant banker, how has managed to pull off this 'man of the people act'

I don't usually dish voters, but it really looks like in England a certain type of person likes to vote for their 'betters'

but not all UKIP voters of course, but enough.

He also went to the elite (it's a word the UKIP uses to attack its enemies and I'm turning it back on them) Dulwich College, a public school founded with Edward Alleyn's money in the 17th (?) century.

 

[Corax]

One thing I really don't get about UKIP is how any of their supporters are female, when one of the party's leading figures is Godfrey "clean behind the fridge" Bloom FFS.

"no self-respecting small businessman with a brain in the right place would ever employ a lady of child-bearing age. That isn't politically correct, is it, but it's a fact of life. The more women's rights you have, it's actually a bar to their employment."

"I am here to represent Yorkshire women who always have dinner on the table when you get home."

 

[teqniq]

 

[Sasaferrato]

Just the further right feeling that the tories are getting a bit wooly on immigration, gay marraige, europe and other idiot daily mail reader concerns. Possibly grabbing a few votes from bnp voters who now dont have a serious proper fash group to support.

Can you explain why being a Communist is OK, whilst being a Fascist is not?

Both are vile totalitarian philosophies, both have murdered and tortured vast numbers of the unfortunate people who existed under these regimes.

Is it simply the hypocrisy of Urban, in that if it is 'left', no matter how revolting it is OK, whilst if it is 'right' it is not?

 

[butchersapron]

Can you explain why being a Communist is OK, whilst being a Fascist is not?

Both are vile totalitarian philosophies, both have murdered and tortured vast numbers of the unfortunate people who existed under these regimes.

Is it simply the hypocrisy of Urban, in that if it is 'left', no matter how revolting it is OK, whilst if it is 'right' it is not?

communism is great and fascism is shit. Simple.

 

[nino_savatte]

Fascism is all about fetishising military uniforms and worshipping wars and death.