Ukip - why are they gaining support?

[weltweit]

Why do i have to admit that? I'm anti-euoro abd i hate him. Some people like him, some don't. But your claim was that their current success was down solely to people liking him - do you really think it's that simple? Even his likeability relies on a background of everyone else being shit. It's based on a negative appraisal of others as much as a positive endorsement of him. Let's talk politics here.

I didn't know you were anti euro. Is that antu Euro the currency or anti euro the EU establishment?

It is certainly true that Farage has not been tainted by office which means people have less to complain about him, and his message so far has been pretty simplistic.

And it is true what you say, that: "everyone else being shit" because they are, choosing someone to vote for will be difficult at the next election for a lot of people.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes, one of the latent messages of the last weeks attacks was based around pics of him sitting in or outside pubs having a pint and reading the paper = pisshead in their imagination, normal in everyone elses.

pubs now only attract certain sections of the population, it's not like it used to be when the pub was a hub for a community. so while the association of farage and ukip with the pub, with their bit about smoking in pubs and that, might play well with a certain demographick of people, it will pass a load of other people by. indeed, with drinking apparently falling among much of the population (see for example http://www.just-drinks.com/news/alcohol-consumption-per-capita-drops-to-14-year-low_id109683.aspx) the identification of ukip with drinking may prove counterproductive.

 

[butchersapron]

I didn't know you were anti euro. Is that antu Euro the currency or anti euro the EU establishment?

It is certainly true that Farage has not been tainted by office which means people have less to complain about him, and his message so far has been pretty simplistic.

And it is true what you say, that: "everyone else being shit" because they are, choosing someone to vote for will be difficult at the next election for a lot of people.

Both, they are effectively one and the same. I want the EU to be smashed into a million pieces. He has office, and he's tainted it - see his braying over the way he's ripped off the EU expenses a few years back. I think many UKIP voters are not keen on farage, but they like the idea of a straight talker, the straight talking often seeming to be as important as what is said.

 

[butchersapron]

pubs now only attract certain sections of the population, it's not like it used to be when the pub was a hub for a community. so while the association of farage and ukip with the pub, with their bit about smoking in pubs and that, might play well with a certain demographick of people, it will pass a load of other people by. indeed, with drinking apparently falling among much of the population (see for example http://www.just-drinks.com/news/alcohol-consumption-per-capita-drops-to-14-year-low_id109683.aspx) the identification of ukip with drinking may prove counterproductive.

Possibly, i think the drop in pub boozing hasn't seen a concomitant drop in it being seen as acceptable, as a normal thing for people to do, rather then something that is a sign of weakness, as in many US states.

 

[articul8]

There is something in the UKIP vote that is a reaction to a kind of patronising, puritanical liberal-left middle class teacherly attitude - don't smoke, don't drink too much, don't be racist, don't be sexist, do your recycling, do enough exercise etc - to which a UKIP vote is a "do you know what, FUCK THIS - you lot are a hypocritical shower of cunts anyway" - if I want to enjoy a pint or tell an off-colour gag I will thank you very fucking much.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Possibly, i think the drop in pub boozing hasn't seen a concomitant drop in it being seen as acceptable, as a normal thing for people to do, rather then something that is a sign of weakness, as in many US states.

Normal and traditional.

 

[butchersapron]

Normal and traditional.

Part of our way of life that they are trying to get rid of with their straight bananas and Somalians.

 

[Dogsauce]

Possibly, i think the drop in pub boozing hasn't seen a concomitant drop in it being seen as acceptable, as a normal thing for people to do, rather then something that is a sign of weakness, as in many US states.

See also the popularity of Charles Kennedy - I think a lot were sympathetuc to his booziness and didn't see it as a weakness.

 

[weltweit]

Both, they are effectively one and the same. I want the EU to be smashed into a million pieces.

Ok. My view is that the union has helped peace break out in Europe (post WWII) and countries coming together is largely the reason for it. If we are moving together we are not moving apart and the extreme of moving apart is war. Therefore I am glad we are moving together.

That said, I want the UK to be in the free market, I am not so keen on the rest and certainly against Britain joining the Euro.

He has office, and he's tainted it - see his braying over the way he's ripped off the EU expenses a few years back. I think many UKIP voters are not keen on farage, but they like the idea of a straight talker, the straight talking often seeming to be as important as what is said.

I think Farage has a sense of humour and often makes his points with a cheeky smile. This differs significantly from Po faced normal politicians who have an overegged sense of their own importance and are basically as dull as ditchwater.

 

[gosub]

Ok. My view is that the union has helped peace break out in Europe (post WWII) and countries coming together is largely the reason for it. If we are moving together we are not moving apart and the extreme of moving apart is war. Therefore I am glad we are moving together.

That said, I want the UK to be in the free market, I am not so keen on the rest and certainly against Britain joining the Euro.



I think Farage has a sense of humour and often makes his points with a cheeky smile. This differs significantly from Po faced normal politicians who have an overegged sense of their own importance and are basically as dull as ditchwater.

NATO played quite a large part in post war European peace, and dragging states along in a direction they were unhappy with in the name of togetherness was the cause of the US civil war

 

[ViolentPanda]

Unbelievable, someone is called cunt out of nowwhere, the cuntee responds politely and it's now bullying and aggression.

Just another helping of treelover's passive-aggressiveness.

 

[treelover]

The face of things to come?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

<eldritch horrors snipped>

The face of things to come?

I really don't want to see that toad-like thing in the middles face when it comes ...

... it's looking close the the edge in that picture which is revolting enough.

What are the other two doing with their hands I wonder?

 

[treelover]

Nice to see the Greens winning two seats in Essex, but the message sent out to the left by Ukip's rise is sobering beyond words: after years of wondering what a crack in mainstream politics might look like, there comes a huge fissure – and the people responsible hail from the populist right. And what does it speak of? Anger and bafflement – "protest", if you prefer – about immigration and so-called "welfare", for sure. But also a profound cultural estrangement from Westminster, and an anodyne political class whose inadequacies were always going to spark public anger, not least in the midst of an economic crisis seemingly without end.

Time for an end to the hubris from WILOTL, they have signally failed and must recognise that if things are to change..

 

[butchersapron]

What is WILOTL?

 

[treelover]

You know by now, 'what is left of the left'

 

[treelover]

what I meant to say is that it could have been the left who were the 'insurgents and benefited from the undoubted alienation of huge parts of the public from the current political class.

 

[butchersapron]

You know by now, 'what is left of the left'

I've never heard that in my life, or if i have it never stuck in my memory.

And what is that unattributed quote from?

 

[butchersapron]

what I meant to say is that it could have been the left who were the 'insurgents and benefited from the undoubted alienation of huge parts of the public from the current political class.

Stop thinking and obsessing on the left and think about the class.

 

[butchersapron]

You stupid cunt. You are why I don't get involved.

Don't get involved with what? And why "You stupid cunt"?

I reckon there's other reasons that you don't 'get involved' gary or kevin or whatever ghastly name you have.

Come on lad let's have it. I am a rooferslad btw if you want to even up. Come on.

Any chance of a reply?

 

[sunnysidedown]

You know by now, 'what is left of the left'

if ever there was a more fitting epigraph

 

[krtek a houby]

I am dismayed but not surprised by the results. What's the general feeling with urban? Apologies, I haven't got the time to spare for 18 pages...

 

[butchersapron]

I am dismayed but not surprised by the results. What's the general feeling with urban? Apologies, I haven't got the time to spare for 18 pages...

More people should have voted lid-dem/tory/labour? Sorry, too busy to read what you may say in reply.

 

[butchersapron]

Dismayed but not surprised. Like an expected shock.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

I am dismayed but not surprised by the results. What's the general feeling with urban? Apologies, I haven't got the time to spare for 18 pages...

Unalloyed pleasure. Tory vote split. Labour more likely to fight for the centre than to make rash commitments on spend. The maths should stop Miliband from saying any silly protectionist or anti-immigration or pro-referendum stuff.

 

[treelover]

I've never heard that in my life, or if i have it never stuck in my memory.

And what is that unattributed quote from?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/03/local-elections-results-panel-verdict

Sorry, its by John Harris in the Guardian L/E panel.

 

[butchersapron]

Gay marriage? wtf is jenkins on about? (In that article treelover linked to above)

 

[krtek a houby]

More people should have voted lid-dem/tory/labour? Sorry, too busy to read what you may say in reply.

That's nice but you're hardly representative of urban. Putting you on ignore now & then you can do the same to me & we'll live life to the full without ever having to cross swords again.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Gay marriage? wtf is jenkins on about? (In that article treelover linked to above)

Tory councillor mate in leafy shire says it keeps coming up on the doorstep; elderly conservatives are furious about it.

He also says that Kipper/Tory relations at a constituency party level are thawing, from fury and loathing two years ago to unofficial but cordial discussions these days about low-level non-aggression pacts in 2015

 

[butchersapron]

That's nice but you're hardly representative of urban. Putting you on ignore now & then you can do the same to me & we'll live life to the full without ever having to cross swords again.

I won't put you on ignore thanks. I'll take the matty talbot option.