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Ukip - why are they gaining support?

butchersapron said:
Total bluff. And the key is not who is elected but how the ruling class move/controlthe overton window.
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Downing Street is moving fast to pre-butt - as it were - today's seat loss results from yesterday's elections. It looks as I write as though UKIP, as expected, has done very well indeed. Remember: Harry Phibbs's success test for them is gains of over 100.

OUT from the Queen's Speech go such Big State or Nanny State measures as a minimum alchohol price and plain cigarette packaging and access (though the former at least was actually junked earlier this year after a Cabinet revolt).
IN come tough, no-nonense measures such as a crackdown on immigrants' access to the NHS and benefits (though it remains to be seen how these plans will work in practice, especially when faced with the dual challenge to all tough-minded proposals - judicial review and human rights laws).
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As to why UKIP are doing well, it is Farage, for he is the only Ukipper who is visible in the main media and he seems to manage to be on the main current affairs programs pretty much every week.

There are other people in UKIP, but they just don't seem to feature, which could be an issue come a general election. Farage can't be everywhere and their candidates will have to speak for themselves which will be a new experience for us.
 
weltweit said:
As to why UKIP are doing well, it is Farage, for he is the only Ukipper who is visible in the main media and he seems to manage to be on the main current affairs programs pretty much every week.

There are other people in UKIP, but they just don't seem to feature, which could be an issue come a general election. Farage can't be everywhere and their candidates will have to speak for themselves which will be a new experience for us.
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No, it's the fact that everyone else is hated, seen as venal self-serving thieves. Farage is just a donkey face on top of that. It is most clearly not about him, it is about how he can/has capitalised on this hatred. It's not him.
 
He is a venal self-serving thief! How does he get away with this "i'm not a politician, one of the establishment" schtick? He's been milking one of the greatest cash cows for unaccountable politicos going for the best part of a decade. Don't see the Telegraph pouring over his expenses there.
 
articul8 said:
How does he get away with this "i'm not a politician, one of the establishment" schtick? He's been milking one of the greatest cash cows for unaccountable politicos going for the best part of a decade. Don't see the Telegraph pouring over his expenses there.
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They already did his i got a million quid off the EU in expenses i think.

You want the telegraph to be defining what's legitimate btw?
 
articul8 said:
He is a venal self-serving thief! How does he get away with this "i'm not a politician, one of the establishment" schtick? He's been milking one of the greatest cash cows for unaccountable politicos going for the best part of a decade. Don't see the Telegraph pouring over his expenses there.
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are you familiar with the 'big lie' technique of goebbels and tony blair?
 
butchersapron said:
No, it's the fact that everyone else is hated, seen as venal self-serving thieves. Farage is just a donkey face on top of that. It is most clearly not about him, it is about how he can/has capitalised on this hatred. It's not him.
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I think you may have to admit that Farage is a likeable charachter. I am pro europe, but I like him..
 
butchersapron said:
They already did his i got a million quid off the EU in expenses i think.

You want the telegraph to be defining what's legitimate btw?
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(no of course - I'm pointing to their role in exposing the parliamentary expenses scandal - they don't seem to have been as assiduous on UKIP expenses).

So how and why is he able to pose a other than a liar and thief like the rest of them?
 
weltweit said:
I think you may have to admit that Farage is a likeable charachter. I am pro europe, but I like him..
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Why do i have to admit that? I'm anti-euoro abd i hate him. Some people like him, some don't. But your claim was that their current success was down solely to people liking him - do you really think it's that simple? Even his likeability relies on a background of everyone else being shit. It's based on a negative appraisal of others as much as a positive endorsement of him. Let's talk politics here.
 
articul8 said:
(no of course - I'm pointing to their role in exposing the parliamentary expenses scandal - they don't seem to have been as assiduous on UKIP expenses).

So how and why is he able to pose a other than a liar and thief like the rest of them?
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Maybe this was because they didn't have any MPs so weren't part of the expose. Just a thought like.
 
butchersapron said:
Maybe this was because they didn't have any MPs so weren't part of the expose. Just a thought like.
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They can attack "MEPs expenses" while milking them to the full. Classic political hypocrisy. They are on the take to an even greater extent than your average MP. Why is he not seen as just as much part of the problem?
 
butchersapron said:
Why do i have to admit that? I'm anti-euoro abd i hate him. Some people like him, some don't. But your claim was that their current success was down solely to people liking him - do you really think it's that simple? Even his likeability relies on a background of everyone else being shit. It's based on a negative appraisal of others as much as a positive endorsement of him. Let's talk politics here.
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there is that perception of ukip as an anti-establishment party, perhaps helped by farage's rather bumbling antics. but yer man's clearly something of a tippler - the grauniad described him in january as 'a famously exuberant drinker' which means he's plastered half the time. this probably explains half his attraction for that bibulous section of society, journalists.
 
butchersapron said:
Because people don't really give a shit and want to hit the others were it hurts. Simple stuff.
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I'd hazard a guess that if UKIP look like doing any real damage at a General Election, Farage will be taken down in a sleaze scandal - cash or sex or both But he's useful for the Tory right atm
 
articul8 said:
They can attack "MEPs expenses" while milking them to the full. Classic political hypocrisy. They are on the take to an even greater extent than your average MP. Why is he not seen as just as much part of the problem?
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They didn't buy a disc ful of MEPs expenses, they bought one full of MPs expenses. I note you've gone from demanding the telegraph police what is politically legitimate to something else rather quickly. Why don't they 'go after' Farage? Because they rather enjoy the grief he's giving the tories? Because they want to see his parties policies gain greater influence? Have you uncovered a conspiracy!
 
Pickman's model said:
there is that perception of ukip as an anti-establishment party, perhaps helped by farage's rather bumbling antics. but yer man's clearly something of a tippler - the grauniad described him in january as 'a famously exuberant drinker' which means he's plastered half the time. this probably explains half his attraction for that bibulous section of society, journalists.
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Yes, one of the latent messages of the last weeks attacks was based around pics of him sitting in or outside pubs having a pint and reading the paper = pisshead in their imagination, normal in everyone elses.
 
butchersapron said:
They didn't buy a disc ful of MEPs expenses, they bought one full of MPs expenses. I note you've gone from demanding the telegraph police what is politically legitimate to something else rather quickly. Why don't they 'go after' Farage? Because they rather enjoy the grief he's giving the tories? Because they want to see his parties policies gain greater influence? Have you uncovered a conspiracy!
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No of course that's what's behind it. What I'm asking is why it hasn't be identified and checked more effectively
 
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