Ukip - why are they gaining support?

[Balbi]

Deffo. He's been making overtures for months.

Farage just won't wear it though. He clearly despises Cameron, Osborne and the 'New Labour' brand of Tories they brought in. And it's splintering the Tory vote, especially at local elections. It's a bit strange really, and reminiscent of the Labour party deciding to eat itself in the 1980's in full view of the electorate - it just took longer to happen.

This split originates in Maastricht, and through the years of opposition the Tories hung it together long enough to form an opposition - however, once they got in, their base is screaming for an abrupt right turn and Cam and Gideon both know that'll kill them dead at the ballot box.

Vaguely admirable that - the Tories discipline in opposition, in grasping power. But essentially it's the same old tired cliche - in a time of famine, they all worked together to ensure they all got fed - in a time of plenty, they argue over the place settings.

 

[butchersapron]

Vaguely admirable that - the Tories discipline in opposition, in grasping power. But essentially it's the same old tired cliche - in a time of famine, they all worked together to ensure they all got fed - in a time of plenty, they argue over the place settings.

See capitalist individualism always fucks up collectivism. It's just human nature. Needs to be stopped.

 

[Balbi]

Oh, yeah - but this time it's funny

 

[Stoat Boy]

Yes, the anti-eu UKIP. Not really an anti-party are they?

Anyway, i thought your Catholicism was supposed to be soothing your mental anguish and inner turmoil - yet you sound ever more rabid each time you re-appear with one of these shocking hit-and-runs.

A fair point. But the reality remains that UKIP do at least offer a form of credible political opposition to the Westminster mainstream at the moment and there is really nothing else out there what so ever. I just loathe the insipid mixture we have in Westminster at the moment and yearn for a change and whilst I accept that UKIP aint going to win any seats in Westminster any time soon as least they are trying to make change happen, even if you dont agree with that change.

I just utterly loathe the careerist class of cunts we have in Westminster both at cabinet and shadow cabinet level and see nothing more than even more vacuous and insincere tossers lining up to take their places when the great lecture circuit in the sky beckons. And from a left, at a time when capitalism is in a terrible crisis and the utter farce of the bail outs and so on is still being played out we get nothing at all of any value.

 

[butchersapron]

Well, one of the reasons was that the right used their power in the preceding non-crisis situation to destroy the left, and the conditions that had historically produced that left, as an effective social force. That sort of thing isn't just put back together again in a few years.

 

[Stoat Boy]

Well, one of the reasons was that the right used their power in the preceding non-crisis situation to destroy the left, and the conditions that had historically produced that left, as an effective social force. That sort of thing isn't just put back together again in a few years.

Maybe not but you still have a Trade Union movement that at least has the political and financial muscle if it wanted to use it. And that is what I fail to understand about their continued support for how Labour has evolved. The question is not Dave or Ed, the question is how did either brother ever get a sniff of being in power after their joint association with the Blair regime.Ditto with Ed Balls and company.

Mass immigration is plainly a matter that suits the top 1% due to the pressure it brings on wage levels and yet we have a left who seem to be only interested in damming anybody or anything who perhaps dare suggest that we need to train the million plus under 25's unemployed in this country first rather than just opening up our labour markets to even more outsiders and in the EU there is an institution run by the most motley bunch of incompetents going but once again, anybody suggests that perhaps our interests might be better served by not being part of it and its all the hysteria once again.

For me I feel that it would be more than possible to make a good left wing case for both positions and which might not have all the UKIP nonsense about defence and so on (things I find utterly impossible to support myself) but instead we get nothing.

Being opposed to even more immigration and wanting us to leave the EU should not a political position solely up to the right to present.

 

[butchersapron]

Again, the people you're thinking of as the left above are in the mainstream anti-immigration boat. What would you have the unions do with their money? Give it to the labour party or piss it away on some no-hopers? Fund an anti-immigration party? Set one up? Do you think that would have flocking to it in the way that UKIP has had recently? I don't. I think any such attempt would be a colossal flop.

 

[Streathamite]

Threads like this really hammer home that most of you lefties can only be defined by what you are against as opposed to what you might actually want to try and do.

UKIP are a political party, and in their way a poilitical phenomenon.
Ergo, suitable subject for apolitcs BB. How on earth you deduced the above from the mere existence of this thread is utterly baffling

 

[nino_savatte]

Farage just won't wear it though. He clearly despises Cameron, Osborne and the 'New Labour' brand of Tories they brought in. And it's splintering the Tory vote, especially at local elections. It's a bit strange really, and reminiscent of the Labour party deciding to eat itself in the 1980's in full view of the electorate - it just took longer to happen.

This split originates in Maastricht, and through the years of opposition the Tories hung it together long enough to form an opposition - however, once they got in, their base is screaming for an abrupt right turn and Cam and Gideon both know that'll kill them dead at the ballot box.

Vaguely admirable that - the Tories discipline in opposition, in grasping power. But essentially it's the same old tired cliche - in a time of famine, they all worked together to ensure they all got fed - in a time of plenty, they argue over the place settings.

Sure but did you notice how much arse-licking Hannan was doing? He does it a lot but he's not got the guts to join the Kippers.

I can still remember the old Referendum Party and that ghastly video they produced in 1997.

 

[nino_savatte]

I wonder how many will jump ship if it ever looks like they are electable? I can think of a few who would if they knew they'd still hang onto their jobs.

They will if UKIP can plug the holes in its leaky ship.

 

[Balbi]

Sure but did you notice how much arse-licking Hannan was doing? He does it a lot but he's not got the guts to join the Kippers.

I can still remember the old Referendum Party and that ghastly video they produced in 1997.

He's playing the game though, safe and soundly. The political commentary that'll allow him to place himself as a visionary should the pact happen, or the Cassandra should doom occur by way of a Labour '15 majority. His readers are that old school Tory base who would love to see their party be a bit more UKIP, they'll vote UKIP in EU elections and maybe locals, but Tory at crunch time. Appealing to his market.

Interesting that polling's indicated Miliband's more valuable to his party support than Cameron or Clegg this week. As in, within membership - he's more likely to be met with support than opposition. Crude way of working it out apparently, but still http://societycentral.ac.uk/2013/03/20/voters-losing-faith-in-coalition-handling-of-economy/. Cameron & Clegg are both viewed as drags on the party, by their membership - but only because they're not implementing the complete batshit nonsense the membership want from them. Politics eh?

 

[butchersapron]

Party memberships tiny and meaningless - only thing that counts is parliamentary party.

 

[coley]

This UKIP candidate in Cambridge is not likely to be gaining to much support after this Q&A on cycling-

http://www.camcycle.org.uk/elections/2013maycounty/eastchesterton

Depends, what is the ratio of cyclists to drivers in Cambridge?

 

[Balbi]

Disagree with you there. Cameron & Clegg are becoming more Gordon Brown than Tony Blair to their electorate, 'their' voters aren't enthused or bothered about voting for them.

 

[Streathamite]

[Nigel is explaining to Reggie what kinds of people his secret army will be against]
Nigel Farage: Wreckers of law and order. Communists, Maoists, Trotskyists, neo-Trotskyists, crypto-Trotskyists, union leaders, Communist union leaders, atheists, agnostics, long-haired weirdos, short-haired weirdos, vandals, hooligans, football supporters, namby-pamby probation officers, rapists, papists, papist rapists, foreign surgeons - headshrinkers, who ought to be locked up, Wedgwood Benn, keg bitter, punk rock, glue-sniffers, "Play For Today", Clive Jenkins, Roy Jenkins, Up Jenkins, up everybody's, Chinese restaurants - why do you think Windsor Castle is ringed with Chinese restaurants?

dead funny post, but it's also a near-perfect demonstration of how people are totally failing to understand the nature and extent of UKIP appeal and support.

 

[coley]

dead funny post, but it's also a near-perfect demonstration of how people are totally failing to understand the nature and extent of UKIP appeal and support.

Mebbes because people are fed up to the back teeth of the lying two faced bunch of hypocrites we have had to endure these last couple of decades and they see UKIP as somehow free of these characteristics, like some once saw the Libdems

 

[el-ahrairah]

dead funny post, but it's also a near-perfect demonstration of how people are totally failing to understand the nature and extent of UKIP appeal and support.

i'm not people

 

[frogwoman]

Again, the people you're thinking of as the left above are in the mainstream anti-immigration boat. What would you have the unions do with their money? Give it to the labour party or piss it away on some no-hopers? Fund an anti-immigration party? Set one up? Do you think that would have flocking to it in the way that UKIP has had recently? I don't. I think any such attempt would be a colossal flop.

We all know how well No2EU worked

 

[redsquirrel]

We all know how well No2EU worked

Has that been wound up or is it still staggering on?

IMO the problem with No2EU wasn't the underlying idea so much as there was no groundwork done before (or after).

 

[Quartz]

We all know how well No2EU worked

Actually, I'll bet that a good many people don't. Apart from not being successful, that is. Not without looking it up anyway.

 

[butchersapron]

Actually, I'll bet that a good many people don't. Apart from not being successful, that is. Not without looking it up anyway.

This farage, why do you like him quartz?

 

[Streathamite]

i'm not people

I've always had a problem putting you in the homo sapiens description class.
More seriously: what I meant was that UKIP have an innate appeal to the sort of people David Nobbs (yaaay! betcha didn't know who the author of Reggie Perrin was) so brilliantly satirised, people who are more interested in their grievances, and people to blame for them, than long and complex answers

 

[frogwoman]

I've always had a problem putting you in the homo sapiens description class.
More seriously: what I meant was that UKIP have an innate appeal to the sort of people David Nobbs (yaaay! betcha didn't know who the author of Reggie Perrin was) so brilliantly satirised, people who are more interested in their grievances, and people to blame for them, than long and complex answers

there are a few lefties who fall into that category as well tbf

 

[butchersapron]

The thing isn't about giving them answers - at least not formal type answers - but to help construct communities in which the interests they see reflected in the UKIP (which, when it comes down to it are the basics, health, work education and leisure for them and their friends and family) are reflected in and expressed through other solidarity based forms of organisation, organisation that has the power to effect the things they care about rather than just being an expression of alienation and anger. People with far-right opinions are not genetically far-right, their views are changeable through practice, in fact they are often a warped expression of exactly the sort of things that we should welcome and try to encourage in our own initiatives. Of course, there are those who are just racist arseholes.

 

[Streathamite]

People with far-right opinions are genetically far-right,there views are changeable through practice,

the rest makes sense, but please could you clarify this bit?

 

[butchersapron]

the rest makes sense, but please could you clarify this bit?

Supposed to read: People with far-right opinions are NOT genetically far-right,there views are changeable through practice,

 

[Streathamite]

Supposed to read: People with far-right opinions are NOT genetically far-right,there views are changeable through practice,

ahhh....I suspected as much, you just threw me there!

 

[Balbi]

The horror of genetic engineering revealed as Farage is found to be 2/3 Enoch, 1/3 Soames

 

[Louis MacNeice]

The horror of genetic engineering revealed as Farage is found to be 2/3 Enoch, 1/3 Soames

No no no...nobody needs a third Soames; an eigth or a sixteenth would be more than enough.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Dan U]

it's ok everyone, Alex Wood wasn't making a nazi salute, he was

angrily trying to take a camera off his girlfriend who was annoyingly taking pictures of him in the pub imitating a pot plant. These things happen - I should know!

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/nig...-local-elections_b_3191417.html?utm_hp_ref=uk