Ukip - why are they gaining support?

[nino_savatte]

I agree with & , but we overlook Farage's personal appeal to voters at our peril.

Setting aside his odious, right-wing, nutjob politics, he is demonstrably appealing to certain sections of the electorate merely by dint of 'being different' to the 3 party droids. He does appear to answer questions put to him, he cultivates an impression of self-depricating good humour and obviously plays on his (golf) clubbable personality. Not totally dis-similar to Boris Johnson he makes a sustained effort to come across as a 'breath of fresh air' on programmes like QT. Of course, he has also over seen a large rise in electoral support for his party as well, from around 3% to 11% in national polling. I know its hard to digest for many of us here, but people do appear to find him likeable.

No surprise then that Sunday's YouGov found him the only party leader with a +ive personal rating, and a very significant one at that.

The tories do have much to fear from this man; no wonder they've started to play rough.

The ones who come across as likeable are perhaps the ones we should mistrust the most.

 

[brogdale]

The ones who come across as likeable are perhaps the ones we should mistrust the most.

Yes....but we're not on his radar, are we?

 

[nino_savatte]

Yes....but we're not on his radar, are we?

Well, no, but what about those who are unable to see past the affable charm? What does it say about them? That they are incapable of seeing anything else but the 'sign'?

Farage and Bozza aren't the only ones. I remember how people were taken in by the boyishly good-looking Blair with his easy smile and ready soundbite.

 

[brogdale]

Well, no, but what about those who are unable to see past the affable charm? What does it say about them? That they are incapable of seeing anything else but the 'sign'?

Farage and Bozza aren't the only ones. I remember how people were taken in by the boyishly good-looking Blair with his easy smile and ready soundbite.

Yep and yep.

But in all honesty this new dangerous man is going to do much damage to the tories before he ever got anywhere near any position of power.

 

[nino_savatte]

Yep and yep.

But in all honesty this new dangerous man is going to do much damage to the tories before he ever got anywhere near any position of power.

Tbh, I'm loving watching UKIP and the Tories tear strips off each other. I haven't had this much entertainment for ages.

 

[The39thStep]

Well, no, but what about those who are unable to see past the affable charm? What does it say about them? That they are incapable of seeing anything else but the 'sign'?

Farage and Bozza aren't the only ones. I remember how people were taken in by the boyishly good-looking Blair with his easy smile and ready soundbite.

affable charm? Fararge is like a grinning smug know all that you find in the bar at the golf club

 

[nino_savatte]

affable charm? Fararge is like a grinning smug know all that you find in the bar at the golf club

It's called sarcasm.

 

[where to]

Agree with brogdale here.

Farage is unusual - perhaps unique - by presenting a positive, cheerful face to their brand of miserable, negative right wing politics. I can't think of any other who has presented these politics without coming across as a totally bitter grumpy and miseryridden cunt.

Compare him to le pen, griffin, tebbit, Mosley, every other ukip member you have ever seen or heard, Powell etc etc. The difference is stark.

Acknowledging this is a pretty important step in understanding their recent success imo.

 

[butchersapron]

Well, no, but what about those who are unable to see past the affable charm? What does it say about them? That they are incapable of seeing anything else but the 'sign'?

To be honest, that's pretty much the exactly how those who dismiss these peoples politics and concerns through simply exposing them or shouting racist at the whole lot of them, without attempting to address them politically - or even to trying recognise how an why they reached their current conclusions and so how to tackle them - operate. And that is perfect for the UKIP leadership - that's exactly the uncomprehending response they need to continue their good form.

 

[Wilf]

affable charm? Fararge is like a grinning smug know all that you find in the bar at the golf club

In fact he's as if by some weird sorcery, an actual golf club bar had been transformed into human form.

 

[where to]

affable charm? Fararge is like a grinning smug know all that you find in the bar at the golf club

Still grinning though...

 

[nino_savatte]

To be honest, that's pretty much the exactly how those who dismiss these peoples politics and concerns through simply exposing them or shouting racist at the whole lot of them, without attempting to address them politically - or even to trying recognise how an why they reached their current conclusions and so how to tackle them - operate. And that is perfect for the UKIP leadership - that's exactly the uncomprehending response they need to continue their good form.

Bloom and Nuttall appear to lack Farage's appeal. As for Lord Pearson, he just came across as a latter day League of Empire Loyalist. UKIP's fortunes hinge on one man.

 

[Streathamite]

affable charm? Fararge is like a grinning smug know all that you find in the bar at the golf club

to you and me, maybe, but clearly - as the only public face of Britain's fastest-growing political party - he has some sort of distinct appeal to an awful lot of people, and that appeal cuts across bounds of age, class and region. Writing him and UKIP off simply isn't smart

 

[The39thStep]

to you and me, maybe, but clearly - as the only public face of Britain's fastest-growing political party - he has some sort of distinct appeal to an awful lot of people, and that appeal cuts across bounds of age, class and region. Writing him and UKIP off simply isn't smart

Its the message rather than the messenger though.Survey after survey lists immigration, the EU and the economy as key issues and UKIP has that corner now from the BNP. Far from writing them off I am backing them at the bookies!

 

[where to]

to you and me, maybe, but clearly - as the only public face of Britain's fastest-growing political party - he has some sort of distinct appeal to an awful lot of people, and that appeal cuts across bounds of age, class and region. Writing him and UKIP off simply isn't smart

His greatest appeal is to the media. Theyre the ones who really love him. Because he doesnt scare them is one of the main reasons why we're being bombarded by him/them.

 

[Streathamite]

Well, no, but what about those who are unable to see past the affable charm? What does it say about them? That they are incapable of seeing anything else but the 'sign'?

It says that they feel totally betrayed by, and cut of from, the cosy 3-party club, and it has done f-all for them since the world - their world - began to fall apart in 2008. It also suggests, strongly, that trhose parties simply aren't addressing, or even listening to their concerns. whilst their standard of living, and life chances have got steadily shittier over the past 5 years or so. Whether those concerns, or the issues that most concern them (eg immigration), are entirely reasonable or well-informed, is beside the point.
Those are normal people, just like us, same number of arms, legs, braincells. As BA pointed out, simply demonising them or ignoring them would be near-disastrous. They have to be listened to, and engaged with, intensively and extensively.

 

[nino_savatte]

His greatest appeal is to the media. Theyre the ones who really love him. Because he doesnt scare them is one of the main reasons why we're being bombarded by him/them.

Indeed, I can't see someone like Bloom getting as much exposure. Even Nuttall's invited on QT every now and again, while Bloom isn't.

 

[where to]

In fact he's as if by some weird sorcery, an actual golf club bar had been transformed into human form.

Or the spirit of a golf club gravitates 15m around him. If you're in a train carriage with him, you're in a golf club bar. If you're in a tv studio with him, you're in a golf club bar.

 

[weepiper]

Agree with brogdale here.

Farage is unusual - perhaps unique - by presenting a positive, cheerful face to their brand of miserable, negative right wing politics. I can't think of any other who has presented these politics without coming across as a totally bitter grumpy and miseryridden cunt.

Compare him to le pen, griffin, tebbit, Mosley, every other ukip member you have ever seen or heard, Powell etc etc. The difference is stark.

Acknowledging this is a pretty important step in understanding their recent success imo.

 

[Streathamite]

Its the message rather than the messenger though.Survey after survey lists immigration, the EU and the economy as key issues and UKIP has that corner now from the BNP. Far from writing them off I am backing them at the bookies!

fair enough! I misread you. I agree entirely with what you've said here - except for the caveat that the messenger must be, at the very least, doing an OK job of communicating that message.

 

[Pickman's model]

that's one for the 'grant tory shit face' thread

 

[nino_savatte]

It says that they feel totally betrayed by, and cut of from, the cosy 3-party club, and it has done f-all for them since the world - their world - began to fall apart in 2008. It also suggests, strongly, that trhose parties simply aren't addressing, or even listening to their concerns. whilst their standard of living, and life chances have got steadily shittier over the past 5 years or so. Whether those concerns, or the issues that most concern them (eg immigration), are entirely reasonable or well-informed, is beside the point.
Those are normal people, just like us, same number of arms, legs, braincells. As BA pointed out, simply demonising them or ignoring them would be near-disastrous. They have to be listened to, and engaged with, intensively and extensively.

I understand that but how does one get through to those who've uncritically swallowed the rhetoric about immigration and, more importantly, difference? UKIP offers nothing but more of the same with a fringe on top. I agree that the 3 main parties have only themselves to blame and that they offer nothing new. But then, nor does UKIP.

 

[Streathamite]

His greatest appeal is to the media. Theyre the ones who really love him. Because he doesnt scare them is one of the main reasons why we're being bombarded by him/them.

Sure, but if the public felt totally turned off by him, that fact would have made itself plain by now, wouldn't it? Like it did with Griffin after his disastrous QT?

 

[Pickman's model]

Sure, but if the public felt totally turned off by him, that fact would have made itself plain by now, wouldn't it? Like it did with Griffin after his disastrous QT?

keep it on the qt

 

[Streathamite]

I understand that but how does one get through to those who've uncritically swallowed the rhetoric about immigration and, more importantly, difference?

I don't actually know the full, right, response, but it has to include a) listening to them, in full and b) then engaging via grassroots campaigning

 

[where to]

Sure, but if the public felt totally turned off by him, that fact would have made itself plain by now, wouldn't it? Like it did with Griffin after his disastrous QT?

Yep, didn't mean they didn't, just that the media dynamic is particularly crucial. Its what actually gets him back on qt every time for starters

 

[William of Walworth]

I understand that but how does one get through to those who've uncritically swallowed the rhetoric about immigration and, more importantly, difference? UKIP offers nothing but more of the same with a fringe on top. I agree that the 3 main parties have only themselves to blame and that they offer nothing new. But then, nor does UKIP.

I agree with this. UKIP is offering the same old same old populist tunes on immigration especially, but there's a large minority around who provide a very receptive audience for those tunes.

Personally I'd be the world's worst anti-right-wing campaigner, because my patience levels with populist lying shit is far too low to ever find an effective way of arguing against it.

 

[Joe Reilly]

I don't actually know the full, right, response, but it has to include a) listening to them, in full and b) then engaging via grassroots campaigning

Campaining for what?

 

[William of Walworth]

I don't actually know the full, right, response, but it has to include a) listening to them, in full and b) then engaging via grassroots campaigning

I do enough 'listening to' hate-foreigners shite (and hate benefit 'scroungers' shite, hate travellers shite, etc) from a significant minority of my work colleagues.

Just makes me want to kill the gullible twats rather than engage with them. Instead, I bottle it up and fume in silence, or do my best to avoid listening at all, when possible.

Highly effective, not

 

[Streathamite]

Campaining for what?

OK, here goes....Campaigns that cover the common ground you actually have with UKIPers - on the economy, jobs, public services, in fact quite a few things - whilst initiating an honest dialogue on immigration, one which can lead to a genuine 2-way process of education.
UKIP's levels of support over the past few years, and Goodwins and Ford's invaluable research
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/29/ukip-sting-local-elections prove the following
1) there is simply too much of it out there, in too much variety, and too upfront, to be dismissed as just the last breaths of a few old white Tories
2) ditto, people who really want an acceptable version of the BNP.
3) UKIP draw support from traditional Labour-voting backgrounds, ex-Tory voters, people principally turned off too much (rightly!) by the current political set up to engage with it...in fact, that anti-politics is a large part of their appeal. Loads and laods of people have concerns about immigration which may mean they are ill-informed; it certainly does not mean they are a screaming racist who jerks off over pix of Heinrich Himmler or La Thatch.It is in fact, part of a wider sense of exclusion, that this country simply is not there for them.
Simply, UKIP look and sound like the first people in a long, long while to take that audience, that group, that social cross-section seriously.
Screaming 'RASCIST' at them, ignoring them or patronising them simply plays into UKIP's hands, which - in the midst of a vicious recession - is simply a very bad mistake to make.