Ukip - why are they gaining support?

[Streathamite]

I do enough 'listening to' hate-foreigners shite (and hate benefit 'scroungers' shite, hate travellers shite, etc) from a significant minority of my work colleagues.

Just makes me want to kill the gullible twats rather than engage with them. Instead, I bottle it up and fume in silence, or do my best to avoid listening at all, when possible.

Highly effective, not

It certainly wasn't effective, IMO a better line is to do the research, master the facts and then debate courteously. You can never defeat hardcore fash that way; you can defeat ignorance and fear

 

[Gingerman]

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/ne...unveils-mep-plans-in-coventry-92746-33254320/
Quality candidate there eh....Jon'Gaunty'Gaunt

 

[William of Walworth]

>>Post 390 :

I think you're massively too optimistic about the possibilities there Streathamite. Far too many people simply don't want to hear contradictions to what they want to believe.

 

[William of Walworth]

It certainly wasn't effective, IMO a better line is to do the research, master the facts and then debate courteously. You can never defeat hardcore fash that way; you can defeat ignorance and fear

Haven't the patience.

Meaning, I do have plenty of facts on benefits (particularly) and a fair few about immigration too.

But people really hate having their prejudices contradicted, don't they?

So a huge reluctance to take on that is my failing, and a big one, sure, but I simply can't be arsed.

Will try and get back to this tomorrow though ...

 

[Corax]

I've only just seen this with not having a TV and all...equal amounts of and




Nig's conclusion? He knows best.

That's a man that didn't get bullied enough at school.

 

[19sixtysix]

A now compulsory abortion from a UKIP candidate in Kent


http://www.gravesendreporter.co.uk/...e_foetuses_says_ukip_kent_candidate_1_1745952

 

[Quartz]

Shortly to be an ex-candidate, I hope.

I wonder if people are mistaken when they compare Farage to Boris Johnston; perhaps Denis Thatcher with a heavy dose of Dear Bill might be closer to the mark?

 

[Ranbay]

https://twitter.com/UkipTips

 

[Ranbay]

^^ While watching CBeebies with your children, be sure to point out that Rastamouse came over here and knicked Fingermouse's job

 

[nino_savatte]

Haven't the patience.

Meaning, I do have plenty of facts on benefits (particularly) and a fair few about immigration too.

But people really hate having their prejudices contradicted, don't they?

So a huge reluctance to take on that is my failing, and a big one, sure, but I simply can't be arsed.

Will try and get back to this tomorrow though ...

I've tried getting some of these Kippers to see the light but, like you say, they aren't interested. They'd rather believe wholly and completely in the myths and lies. I had one patronise me on Twitter the other day. Another kept misrepresenting what I was saying. With that kind of ignorance, words can't penetrate those thick skulls in the same way that a power drill can.

 

[Streathamite]

Far too many people simply don't want to hear contradictions to what they want to believe.

oh absolutely; especially when times are hard, many people simply want a scapegoat. But most is not all, and, equally, some/many can be educated, especially if you adopt a long-term, slowly, slowly, drip, drip approach; all of the most successful campaigns I've sen, in tems of blunting the BNP's influence in an area, for instance, have been built on painstaking grassroots persuasion
Also, UKIP's target audience are by definition different and more persuadable, they're people who'd be horrified to be thought of as racist. They too have an instinctive desire to retreat to the comfort of myths and lies, but you can explode those lies, time and time again. And that will work, because even less do people want to see themselves as ignorant, gullible fools.

 

[Quartz]

I've tried getting some of these Kippers to see the light but, like you say, they aren't interested. They'd rather believe wholly and completely in the myths and lies.... Another kept misrepresenting what I was saying.

Unfortunately that's the norm for the Tories, Labour and LibDems too.

 

[nino_savatte]

Hannan's worried. Get out the popcorn.

If we carry on like this, we’ll give Labour a massive parliamentary majority with a minority of the popular vote. Together, the Conservatives and Ukip could deliver the referendum on leaving the EU which more than 80 per cent of people want. Instead, the two parties are locked in a quarrel which reflects badly on all concerned.
When Ken Clarke called Ukip "a collection of clowns", he was being unnecessarily rude – though no less rude, to be fair, than Ukip habitually is about him. Name-calling is rarely a way to win people over; nor does it impress neutral observers.
Politics is a rough game, of course, and we all sometimes lose our temper. I’ve done so myself, and I apologise now to the people I’ve been offensive about – including Gordon Brown. In this instance, though, Ken wasn’t having a go at another politician; he was having a go at a large constituency of people in Britain.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/d...pats-could-put-ed-miliband-in-downing-street/

 

[Dogsauce]

Come the revolution we'll auction off the rights to stand on the throat of people like Dan 'the NHS was a big mistake' Hannan to finish them off, or maybe adopt the more egalitarian method of a good old fashion raffle. Should raise enough to pay for a couple of hospitals.

The concern I have over the last couple of days is seeing the Tory press attack machine being drawn into the battle, being reminded that tales of being free from a 'state owned' press is pretty meaningless when it so willingly does the government's work. Being amused at seeing right-wing fucks on the receiving end is balanced by concern that the same machine will be pointed at anything left/progressive that offers a threat on the same scale.

 

[treelover]

Come the revolution we'll auction off the rights to stand on the throat of people like Dan 'the NHS was a big mistake' Hannan to finish them off, or maybe adopt the more egalitarian method of a good old fashion raffle. Should raise enough to pay for a couple of hospitals.

The concern I have over the last couple of days is seeing the Tory press attack machine being drawn into the battle, being reminded that tales of being free from a 'state owned' press is pretty meaningless when it so willingly does the government's work. Being amused at seeing right-wing fucks on the receiving end is balanced by concern that the same machine will be pointed at anything left/progressive that offers a threat on the same scale.

Yes, it has been so blatant, it makes you wonder whether they care that they are seen to be part of the propaganda machine, even the most unpolitical reader must be noticing it.

 

[el-ahrairah]

[Nigel is explaining to Reggie what kinds of people his secret army will be against]
Nigel Farage: Wreckers of law and order. Communists, Maoists, Trotskyists, neo-Trotskyists, crypto-Trotskyists, union leaders, Communist union leaders, atheists, agnostics, long-haired weirdos, short-haired weirdos, vandals, hooligans, football supporters, namby-pamby probation officers, rapists, papists, papist rapists, foreign surgeons - headshrinkers, who ought to be locked up, Wedgwood Benn, keg bitter, punk rock, glue-sniffers, "Play For Today", Clive Jenkins, Roy Jenkins, Up Jenkins, up everybody's, Chinese restaurants - why do you think Windsor Castle is ringed with Chinese restaurants?
Reginald Perrin: You realise the sort of people you're going to attract, don't you, Jimmy? Thugs, bully-boys, psychopaths, sacked policemen, security guards, sacked security guards, ratialists, Paki-bashers, queer-bashers, Chink-bashers, anybody-bashers, rear Admirals, queer admirals, Vice Admirals, fascists, neo-fascists, crypto-fascists, loyalists, neo-loyalists, crypto-loyalists.
Nigel Farage: Do you think so? I thought recruitment might be difficult.

 

[gosub]

Hannan's worried. Get out the popcorn.

Hannan does it every election.


How is call me Dave's EU review going?

 

[William of Walworth]

[Nigel is explaining to Reggie what kinds of people his secret army will be against]
Nigel Farage: Wreckers of law and order. Communists, Maoists, Trotskyists, neo-Trotskyists, crypto-Trotskyists, union leaders, Communist union leaders, atheists, agnostics, long-haired weirdos, short-haired weirdos, vandals, hooligans, football supporters, namby-pamby probation officers, rapists, papists, papist rapists, foreign surgeons - headshrinkers, who ought to be locked up, Wedgwood Benn, keg bitter, punk rock, glue-sniffers, "Play For Today", Clive Jenkins, Roy Jenkins, Up Jenkins, up everybody's, Chinese restaurants - why do you think Windsor Castle is ringed with Chinese restaurants?
Reginald Perrin: You realise the sort of people you're going to attract, don't you, Jimmy? Thugs, bully-boys, psychopaths, sacked policemen, security guards, sacked security guards, ratialists, Paki-bashers, queer-bashers, Chink-bashers, anybody-bashers, rear Admirals, queer admirals, Vice Admirals, fascists, neo-fascists, crypto-fascists, loyalists, neo-loyalists, crypto-loyalists.
Nigel Farage: Do you think so? I thought recruitment might be difficult.

Classix!

'Keg Bitter' though -- very seventies reference that!

I understand Nigel Fiasco actually is a real ale man. Please let me make it very clear on Urban though that there's plenty more of us who are lefties!

Keith Flett included

 

[William of Walworth]

Hannan's worried. Get out the popcorn.

Naked call for a UKIP/Tory electoral pact there surely?

 

[nino_savatte]

Naked call for a UKIP/Tory electoral pact there surely?

Deffo. He's been making overtures for months.

 

[William of Walworth]

oh absolutely; especially when times are hard, many people simply want a scapegoat. But most is not all, and, equally, some/many can be educated, especially if you adopt a long-term, slowly, slowly, drip, drip approach; all of the most successful campaigns I've sen, in tems of blunting the BNP's influence in an area, for instance, have been built on painstaking grassroots persuasion
Also, UKIP's target audience are by definition different and more persuadable, they're people who'd be horrified to be thought of as racist. They too have an instinctive desire to retreat to the comfort of myths and lies, but you can explode those lies, time and time again. And that will work, because even less do people want to see themselves as ignorant, gullible fools.

You have a much more positive (and confident?) take on this than I'm able to muster really. It would take seriously hard work like you say, and require a level of patience and campaigning application that I don't think I've got. This isn't a UKIP target area where I live -- South Wales has its own dynamics, and some of those are less leftish inclined than I was expecting when I first moved here.

But there's a significant minority of people here whose default reaction to foreigners, benefits, etc is very UKIP-like. I tend to agree with what nino posted further up -- some of those attitudes come across as pretty ingrained. Plenty of people just prefer to follow the easiest gut reaction.

 

[nino_savatte]

Hannan does it every election.


How is call me Dave's EU review going?

True and yet, he doesn't have the guts to go all the way and join the Kippers.

 

[Streathamite]

[Nigel is explaining to Reggie what kinds of people his secret army will be against]
Nigel Farage: Wreckers of law and order. Communists, Maoists, Trotskyists, neo-Trotskyists, crypto-Trotskyists, union leaders, Communist union leaders, atheists, agnostics, long-haired weirdos, short-haired weirdos, vandals, hooligans, football supporters, namby-pamby probation officers, rapists, papists, papist rapists, foreign surgeons - headshrinkers, who ought to be locked up, Wedgwood Benn, keg bitter, punk rock, glue-sniffers, "Play For Today", Clive Jenkins, Roy Jenkins, Up Jenkins, up everybody's, Chinese restaurants - why do you think Windsor Castle is ringed with Chinese restaurants?
Reginald Perrin: You realise the sort of people you're going to attract, don't you, Jimmy? Thugs, bully-boys, psychopaths, sacked policemen, security guards, sacked security guards, ratialists, Paki-bashers, queer-bashers, Chink-bashers, anybody-bashers, rear Admirals, queer admirals, Vice Admirals, fascists, neo-fascists, crypto-fascists, loyalists, neo-loyalists, crypto-loyalists.
Nigel Farage: Do you think so? I thought recruitment might be difficult.

That's one of my favourite episodes of 'Reggie Perrin'!

 

[butchersapron]

Ideal time for C4 to repeat Fairly Secret Army - never repeated ever.

 

[Streathamite]

But there's a significant minority of people here whose default reaction to foreigners, benefits, etc is very UKIP-like. I tend to agree with what nino posted further up -- some of those attitudes come across as pretty ingrained. Plenty of people just prefer to follow the easiest gut reaction.

oh don't get me wrong, I know that all of that is true - I just think they are so obviously being led up the path - and you have to believe most people aren't complete mugs - that enough of them can be turned, espesh as UKIP really haven't been put under sustained scrutiny yet, as they will be when the Tories start really fighting dirty (which they will, no political animal is more vicious than a tory MP facing electoral wipeout.
(btw, what you say about SW Wales is far more true about mid-wales, where I lived).

 

[Streathamite]

Please let me make it very clear on Urban though that there's plenty more of us who are lefties!
Keith Flett included

indeed, our Keith has v much the look of a man who hath supped long and lustily at the pumps!

 

[Streathamite]

Ideal time for C4 to repeat Fairly Secret Army - never repeated ever.

oh god, yes please. utterly brilliant

 

[Dogsauce]

True and yet, he doesn't have the guts to go all the way and join the Kippers.

I wonder how many will jump ship if it ever looks like they are electable? I can think of a few who would if they knew they'd still hang onto their jobs.

 

[Stoat Boy]

These elections on Thursday at least offer choices outside of the main three parties. You have UKIP on the right and.....oh I forgot. FUCK ALL on the left.

Threads like this really hammer home that most of you lefties can only be defined by what you are against as opposed to what you might actually want to try and do.

 

[butchersapron]

These elections on Thursday at least offer choices outside of the main three parties. You have UKIP on the right and.....oh I forgot. FUCK ALL on the left.

Threads like this really hammer home that most of you lefties can only be defined by what you are against as opposed to what you might actually want to try and do.

Yes, the anti-eu UKIP. Not really an anti-party are they?

Anyway, i thought your Catholicism was supposed to be soothing your mental anguish and inner turmoil - yet you sound ever more rabid each time you re-appear with one of these shocking hit-and-runs.