Ukip - why are they gaining support?

[ViolentPanda]

Some of this sneering 'anti fascist' liberal bollocks where people are constantly taking the piss out of Ukip voters for their spelling, intelligence, accent and even saying racist, elitist shit like the comments about Europe and some of the stuff I saw on fb about the black ukip candidate, reminds me of Bush and Blair during the Iraq war, where they justified the war was it was to 'spread freedom' and anyone who disagrereed obviously did not like freedom and democracy and supported Saddam.

As some posters will know, I have extended family out Norfolk way, and the sense I've gotten with regard to UKIP votes boils down to a single point: UKIP canvassed some areas heavily and engaged with those they canvassed. In Great Yarmouth's wards they were sometimes the only party to turn up on the doorstep, and they appear to have taken it seriously - note-takers accompanying the candidates etc - whereas the three mainstream parties appear to have taken the electorate for granted. These aren't unintelligent voters, they're voters who felt engaged enough with the political process to vote for someone who appears to be listening to them. How pundits translate that into hairy thickos voting for UKIP merely shows that some people have fallen back on stock stereotypes to "explain" things, rather than actually engaging with (possibly unpalateable) fact.
Multiply that vote across the country, even if the concern shown on the doorstep is merely an act, and that's a fair few people convinced that they're being listened to, and that's something that none of the major parties have been able to do for at least the last decade and a half.

 

[ViolentPanda]

So what are you? A right-nationalist Muppet?

You need to get your irony detector serviced.

 

[Roadkill]

btw, wrt UKIP's supposed strongholds, Hull *is* one of those. It's where they won their first ever council seat. It's not really true that they started out as a party only of the Tory shires.

Eh? The point about places like Hull - although more so Sunderland and Rotherham, where they did even better - is that it's somewhere they've just broken through. Here are the results for the 2012 elections, for example, and here's 2014 for comparison. They didn't even field a candidate in Southcoates East ward then: now they've deposed Labour and got their first councillor. I've not checked in detail, but I'm pretty sure their share of the vote is well up in every ward where they've fielded a candidate. They really weren't a significant factor here before these elections: now they are. And lest we forget, they've only one councillor in Hull: they've ten in Rotherham, again from none before. So if you're trying to argue that their surge in support in cities like Hull is illusory, you're flat-out wrong.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Anti-racism is also like being against racism. Don't throw the baby out here.

The problem is that anti-racists are racist against racists, maaan!

 

[treelover]

B/A said
One other thing I missed in my list of indicators of gaining support last night, post membership, now up to 40 000 plus and currently growing at 5000 a month. If all these add up to losing support or standing still, imagine how well they'd be doing if they were growing.

The 'fastest growing' left wing party, Left Unity only has 2000 members, what a state of affairs.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The 'fastest growing' left wing party, Left Unity only has 2000 members, what a state of affairs.

Thing is, Left Unity has a reasonably-complex agenda, whereas UKIP's agenda is best described as "amorphous, but anti-immigration". UKIP have wider appeal at least partly because what they "put out there" to the public isn't complex - it's a simple message that can be read a number of different ways, depending on the POV of the reader.

 

[Roadkill]

As some posters will know, I have extended family out Norfolk way, and the sense I've gotten with regard to UKIP votes boils down to a single point: UKIP canvassed some areas heavily and engaged with those they canvassed. In Great Yarmouth's wards they were sometimes the only party to turn up on the doorstep, and they appear to have taken it seriously - note-takers accompanying the candidates etc - whereas the three mainstream parties appear to have taken the electorate for granted. These aren't unintelligent voters, they're voters who felt engaged enough with the political process to vote for someone who appears to be listening to them. How pundits translate that into hairy thickos voting for UKIP merely shows that some people have fallen back on stock stereotypes to "explain" things, rather than actually engaging with (possibly unpalateable) fact.
Multiply that vote across the country, even if the concern shown on the doorstep is merely an act, and that's a fair few people convinced that they're being listened to, and that's something that none of the major parties have been able to do for at least the last decade and a half.

I agree, but it's also worth saying that they played a very canny game in two respects. Firstly, ditching the 2010 manifesto, much of which would have gone down like a sack of shit with a lot of erstwhile Labour voters, and refusing to be drawn onto territory other than Europe and immigration allowed people to project onto them what they want to see, even those who support things like renationalisation of the railways and nationalising energy firms, neither of which the Kippers are likely to be all that keen on. Secondly, they picked their target areas well and focused their - still comparatively limited - resources on them. Here they didn't even bother fielding a candidate in some of the more middle-class wards: they threw everything at poorer areas of the city, and it worked. Looking ahead, there's no reason the latter shouldn't continue to work, but I still think the former will become more difficult as the general election looms larger.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Well my hunch appears to have been wrong. UKIP have polled closer to 30 per cent in the euros than 25 %.

 

[brogdale]

BBC focusing now on the fractured nature of the right in the new chamber...UKIP not sitting with FN, and FN not sitting with GD etc..

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Do we have an idea of funding levels for UKIP, compared to other parties down as far as Greens and (snort) Lib Dems?

 

[tony.c]

UKIP have a number of wealthy ex-Tory financial backers. I doubt that the Greens do.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Sure, but is there anything quantitative?

 

[Quartz]

Well my hunch appears to have been wrong. UKIP have polled closer to 30 per cent in the euros than 25 %.

Not up here they didn't: ~10%

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Sure, but is there anything quantitative?

The electoral commission has a searchable tool:

https://pefonline.electoralcommission.org.uk/Search/SOASearch.aspx

In 2011 it was £1bn to the Kippers and £710k to the Greens. Nothing more recent.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Thanks.

 

[Dogsauce]

UKIP have a number of wealthy ex-Tory financial backers. I doubt that the Greens do.

Yep, we now have four parties funded by millionaires that pander to or stir up fears about immigration. Not a victory, is it?

 

[SpookyFrank]

As some posters will know, I have extended family out Norfolk way, and the sense I've gotten with regard to UKIP votes boils down to a single point: UKIP canvassed some areas heavily and engaged with those they canvassed. In Great Yarmouth's wards they were sometimes the only party to turn up on the doorstep, and they appear to have taken it seriously - note-takers accompanying the candidates etc - whereas the three mainstream parties appear to have taken the electorate for granted. These aren't unintelligent voters, they're voters who felt engaged enough with the political process to vote for someone who appears to be listening to them. How pundits translate that into hairy thickos voting for UKIP merely shows that some people have fallen back on stock stereotypes to "explain" things, rather than actually engaging with (possibly unpalateable) fact.
Multiply that vote across the country, even if the concern shown on the doorstep is merely an act, and that's a fair few people convinced that they're being listened to, and that's something that none of the major parties have been able to do for at least the last decade and a half.

I dunno, simply voting for whoever turns up at your doorstep seems pretty stupid to me.

 

[Dogsauce]

It's having someone pay attention to you, and can also humanise candidates or parties. It's why in some local areas you get a candidate from a regionally less-popular party because they are well known and established in the community. The lib dems used to be quite good at this.

 

[brogdale]

It's having someone pay attention to you, and can also humanise candidates or parties. It's why in some local areas you get a candidate from a regionally less-popular party because they are well known and established in the community. The lib dems used to be quite good at this.

Yes. And it's worth remembering that the older voters recall face-to-face interaction as the norm.

 

[SpookyFrank]

It's having someone pay attention to you, and can also humanise candidates or parties. It's why in some local areas you get a candidate from a regionally less-popular party because they are well known and established in the community. The lib dems used to be quite good at this.

Thinking that what you say to a doorstep canvasser is going to influence a political party's national policy, note taker or no note taker, is also pretty stupid.

 

[MrSki]

 

[goldenecitrone]

Yep, we now have four parties funded by millionaires that pander to or stir up fears about immigration. Not a victory, is it?

Definitely not. A worrying lurch to the right across the country.

 

[SpineyNorman]

What a smug liberal cunt

 

[MrSki]

What a smug liberal cunt

You watched that quickly.

 

[mutley]

I doubt we can explain that much of the UKIP vote by them canvassing, cos they won't have the people on the ground to do more than scratch the surface. And their vote is so widespread, with them even getting one MEP in scotland and wales. They are connecting for othe reasons. Sure canvassing helps but its not the explanation.

 

[SpineyNorman]

You watched that quickly.

Comes over in the first 30 seconds or so with the stuff about liverpool. Watched the rest now and it doesn't get any better. Do you dispute the self-evident fact that Stewart lee is indeed a smug liberal cunt?

 

[MrSki]

I thought it was about someone from Liverpool?

I will leave it to you to decide who is & isn't a smug liberal cunt.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I thought it was about someone from Liverpool?

And in order to do so he demonises the entire city - stuff about nicking coats etc. And do I really need to tell you what he's talking about when he says, 'if only there was a way for liverpudlians to profit from going on and on about the past in a really whiny voice' what do you think he's talking about?

Also, EU migration is good cos it means london trendies like him can get a coffee cheaper or something.

I will leave it to you to decide who is & isn't a smug liberal cunt.

Sensible choice. He is one.

 

[MrSki]

And in order to do so he demonises the entire city - stuff about nicking coats etc. And do I really need to tell you what he's talking about when he says, 'if only there was a way for liverpudlians to profit from going on and on about the past in a really whiny voice' what do you think he's talking about?

Also, EU migration is good cos it means london trendies like him can get a coffee cheaper or something.



Sensible choice. He is one.

Sorry if a sense of humour has passed you by. I think he might have been joking.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Sorry if a sense of humour has passed you by. I think he might have been joking.

Jokes are meant to be funny aren't they? If I told you a racist joke would you accept the excuse that I was just joking?