UK courtroom to hear evidence against the official narrative of 9/11

[Serotonin]

oh ffs.

Reinvestigate 9/11 has a very clear "no holocaust denial" policy and has done for years. I have gone to some trouble to ringfence my particular circle from NK whose presence has done the movement quite some damage. I can't account for the video you have found, but I am nowhere in it.

Don't you think there might be an issue with hanging about with groups that feel the need to state they have a no holocaust denial policy? It's like UKIP feeling they need to state that they are a non racist party.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

oh ffs.

Reinvestigate 9/11 has a very clear "no holocaust denial" policy and has done for years. I have gone to some trouble to ringfence my particular circle from NK whose presence has done the movement quite some damage. I can't account for the video you have found, but I am nowhere in it.

Of course you can't account for it, to do so would require some actual critical thinking on your part.

 

[Blagsta]

oh ffs.

Reinvestigate 9/11 has a very clear "no holocaust denial" policy and has done for years. I have gone tonight some trouble to ringfence my particular circle from NK whose presence has done the movement quite some damage. I can't account for the video you have found, but I am nowhere in it.

I think Sihi has just done a fairly comprehensive job in showing up the racism in your beliefs. Any comment?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I have gone to some trouble to ringfence my particular circle from NK whose presence has done the movement quite some damage

So, do you finally accept he's a holocaust denier? You've defended him on here in the past, what changed your mind?

 

[frogwoman]

oh ffs.

Reinvestigate 9/11 has a very clear "no holocaust denial" policy and has done for years. I have gone to some trouble to ringfence my particular circle from NK whose presence has done the movement quite some damage. I can't account for the video you have found, but I am nowhere in it.

what happens if somebody breaches this policy?

 

[butchersapron]

It's pretty clearly a policy of keep it quiet rather than we will have nothing to do with you. Which is why you so often find this stuff one step away rather then being openly embraced - at least by this particular group . For example, on the first page of the reinvestigate 911 website we find listed as a key speaker at one of their events one Tony Gosling, the same Tony Gosling who hosted the Protocols of the Elders of Zion on his bildeburg site.

Also notice the way that jazzz only picks this single group from the myriad of groups as an example of good practice. I wonder why. A few of the links in the thread above explain exactly why.

 

[frogwoman]

sihhi interesting about the argentine junta, I did not know about their anti-semitism although I was vaguely aware that there has been quite a bit of it over there especially after the 1998 economic crash. It's also worth remembering about this "zionists downplayed other genocides/other groups who died in the holocaust" stuff, that while the zionist movement and their focus on jewish exclusivity has not exactly helped recognition of this stuff in the western world in parts of eastern europe such as (until recently) romania, etc, where institutionalised anti-semitism and racism is still common, the governments of these places until recently (with eu accession for example) refused to speak about or admit their states role in the holocaust at all far less do anything serious to tackle anti-semitism and especially not racism towards the roma.

The denial of the roma holocaust has less to do with jews than it does with extreme prejudice against them - prejudice that often goes hand in hand with anti-semitic prejudice

 

[frogwoman]

Also worth stating the perhaps obvious fact that countries where homosexuality has until recently been illegal and where gay people do not have equal rights, are regularly tortured, have their homes raided etc, dont need "the zionists" to tell them not to commemorate the imprisonment and murder of homosexuals in WWII

 

[frogwoman]

Also re: communists most governments (including the israeli) have turned the holocaust into a sort of depoliticised banal lesson on the dangers of prejudice (and of course combined a load of stuff about how great and how democratic "we" are) rather than emphasise the actual political content of fascism and hitler's views, how he saw bolshevism and judaism as part of the same thing, how fascism destroyed all independent forms of w/c organisation and how this enabled it to carry out the slaughter of the jews and other groups effectively etc

no conspiracy here anyway, just the normal workings of government

 

[sihhi]

The Jazzz record - straight exchange from elsewhere:

saying that anti-semitism is created by "elite jews" to control everyone is pretty much the definition of anti-semitism tho.

No, someone who is anti-semitic doesn't like Jews (or semites, to be exact).

It's a bloody good example of a modern day anti-semitic belief. The sort of belief held by an anti-semite.

No it's not. The anti-semite will dislike ALL Jewry, on the basis of them being Jews and needing no other reason. He will not see the great majority of Jewish people as 'victims'. He will dislike people, and not simply policy.
Again, I say that people who profess to love all mankind should be far more careful with their finger-pointing.

It's not anti-semitism if you only blame some Jews for conspiring to control the world?

Absolutely not! How can you be said to be against the masses when you specifically blame the elite?

Because you connect the mass of jewry with the so-called elite due to the latter having reached their position of dominance, such that they have manipulated the entire humanity for millenia due to their special jewish powers, powers that derive from their being jewish and having malevolent intent due to being jewish. That's how the two are connected. By attrition of special characteristics and motivations due to being jewish - if it was for any other reason that this elite gained their power then why mention their jewishness? Their jewishness is mentioned because it how they got their power, through being jews. This connects them with general jewry.

No further Jazzz response at all, just further variations of 'Hey you, be careful about suggesting racist behaviour from non-racists is racist, that's really bad for anti-racism'
Jazz on Kollestrom:

What I what I know about Nick K is that he is no anti-semite. He is a conspiracy theorist. I am placed in the awkward position of having to comment on someone that I know (although I knew nothing of his interest in WWII). Now if I didn't know him, and quite liked the fellow there'd be nothing making me defend him against this accusation, and for all I would know it could be true. However, I'd be a pretty crap bloke if I didn't speak up for people I know when they need it. And having spent some time with Nick K I've never seen the slightest hint of anti-semitism from him and that charge just doesn't fit with the person I know. What I 'don't have a problem with' is someone genuinely stating what they believe, however wrong that may be. What I very much DO have a problem with is people wanting laws to suppress challenging viewpoints, again, however wrong. I need hardly point out that that is the way that fascist regimes gain hold of a compliant populace.

Repeated promotion of "use all the conspiracies" smart antisemite David Icke:

David Icke on the Russell Brand show
David Icke on 'Swine Flu'
David Icke lecture @ Wembley Arena, October 2012

The hard-right conspiracist group Jazzz currently promotes has these people as part of its talk and now annual conference (based in Conway Hall or Friends Meeting House).

Nearly every named speaker is involved in some sorts of anti-semitism or Holocaust denial or promotion of other antisemites and Holocaust deniers

Cynthia McKinney
David Southwell
Lars Schall
Tony Gosling
Niels Harrit
Annie Machon


The partial exceptions are Dan Glazebrook, his main purpose is to attack and smear respected anti-conspiracists/sane people like Noam Chomsky who also happens to be Jewish and anti-Zionist (understanding Zionism as post-48 state behaviour) and against conspiracy theorising.
and John Bailey former union activist at Wapping who has basically abandoned union organisation and peddles an extreme Murdoch-based quasi conspiracist approach to the British press, happy to assert that all newspapers are the same and unreliable - a useful figure to explain why the press don't take conspiracism seriously.
and Michael Ratner, strong supporter of Assange, US New Left pedigree, founder of Jewish Voice for Peace (a sort of US version of Jews for Justice for Palestine) who is an acceptable Jew specifically because he believes it is US Jewry's deficiencies that allow subjugation of Palestinians to continue, that US Jews have a particular, heavier duty above that of other Americans or other people in general to declare themselves outright opponents of Israel: "I recall a conversation I had some years ago with the political artist Leon Golub, famous for his outsized oil paintings of torture carried out by American mercenaries in Central America. Leon told me that he had been invited to attend a panel to address what it meant to be a Jewish political artist. He said he had never thought of himself as a “Jewish political artist” but only as a “political artist.” Then he thought some more. Of the works of art he had made, none concerned Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians. And then he knew, at least for himself and probably many others: to be a “Jewish political artist” was to be an artist who avoided depicting the horrors inflicted on Palestinians. Of course, that is true for more than just artists. Many Jews who are very involved in human rights, ending poverty and war, and fighting for the underdog avoid criticism of Israel. They wrongly think that human rights are divisible; or that like ostriches they can hide their heads and pretend not to see what is clearly staring them in the face and makes them uncomfortable: the inhuman treatment of Palestinians. Some of our willful blindness and refusal to act is a result of our ambivalence about condemning the actions of a people that have experienced pervasive antisemitism and the holocaust. Some of our hesitation to act results from the condemnation and opprobrium anyone, but especially Jews, encounter with even mild criticisms of Israel. Organizations that take a position against Israeli actions subject themselves to a loss of funding from foundations and individuals. Few can afford to do so. As long as this silence continues, so will the U.S. billions in aid and arms that facilitates the killings of Palestinians. As long as this silence continues, more and more settlements will be built. As long as this silence continues, there will be more and more Gazas and more and more children murdered."

So that's 66% antisemites with 33% facilitators to provide and draw in people from different fields - those interested in African affairs (Glazebrook), the press (Bailey) and Wikileaks (Ratner). People like Niels Harrit do not bring in anyone interested in architecture (or chemistry for that matter) it's just a bow in the arrow for a quasi-scientific attack. There are those in the conspiracist movement who believe Harrit is an absurd liability with the nanochemistry line (WTF?) and it's far better to go for the Machon 'it was a terrorist assault but Mossad were the trainers, funders and organisers' line.

 

[frogwoman]

and Michael Ratner, strong supporter of Assange, US New Left pedigree, founder of Jewish Voice for Peace (a sort of US version of Jews for Justice for Palestine) who is an acceptable Jew specifically because he believes it is US Jewry's deficiencies that allow subjugation of Palestinians to continue, that US Jews have a particular, heavier duty above that of other Americans or other people in general to declare themselves outright opponents of Israel: "I recall a conversation I had some years ago with the political artist Leon Golub, famous for his outsized oil paintings of torture carried out by American mercenaries in Central America. Leon told me that he had been invited to attend a panel to address what it meant to be a Jewish political artist. He said he had never thought of himself as a “Jewish political artist” but only as a “political artist.” Then he thought some more. Of the works of art he had made, none concerned Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians. And then he knew, at least for himself and probably many others: to be a “Jewish political artist” was to be an artist who avoided depicting the horrors inflicted on Palestinians. Of course, that is true for more than just artists. Many Jews who are very involved in human rights, ending poverty and war, and fighting for the underdog avoid criticism of Israel. They wrongly think that human rights are divisible; or that like ostriches they can hide their heads and pretend not to see what is clearly staring them in the face and makes them uncomfortable: the inhuman treatment of Palestinians. Some of our willful blindness and refusal to act is a result of our ambivalence about condemning the actions of a people that have experienced pervasive antisemitism and the holocaust. Some of our hesitation to act results from the condemnation and opprobrium anyone, but especially Jews, encounter with even mild criticisms of Israel. Organizations that take a position against Israeli actions subject themselves to a loss of funding from foundations and individuals. Few can afford to do so. As long as this silence continues, so will the U.S. billions in aid and arms that facilitates the killings of Palestinians. As long as this silence continues, more and more settlements will be built. As long as this silence continues, there will be more and more Gazas and more and more children murdered."

ugh i hate hate hate this shit. it's no different to "anti-germans" and the belief that some deficiency in german history and culture caused Nazism and how they basically now have a duty to hate themselves for all time.

do us zionist organisations have some sort of responsibility for influencing israeli policy decisions that push it in a certain direction? yes they do. do "jews" have some particular responsibility over it? no, and if you want to gain any sort of political support you have to stop saying this sort of shit.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Gross Fraud At Nuremberg - An Ugly History
links to an article from antisemitic conspiracist Jeff Rense's website that begins "The Nuremberg trials are a vast, vast subject. That the evidence used against the defendants was very dubious and obtained by even more dubious methods is, however, very clear"

Rense being his usual obtuse self. No nation that participated at the Nuremberg trials has ever tried to pretend that some testimony from primary participants wasn't extracted under torture. Rense, however, does appear to be trying to pretend that much of that testimony wasn't independently-corroborated by people who weren't tortured.

 

[butchersapron]

**oops wrong thread**

 

[DotCommunist]

bit like this?

 

[frogwoman]

It's pathetic. Not to mention that saying that "jews" should do this or that actually removes responsibility from heads of state and heads of industry etc - jewish or not - who ARE RESPONSIBLE for israel's actions and support and the amount of deaths caused by it.

 

[Lemon Eddy]

The Jazzz record - straight exchange from elsewhere:

Thanks for all the leg work.

 

[sihhi]

ugh i hate hate hate this shit. it's no different to "anti-germans" and the belief that some deficiency in german history and culture caused Nazism and how they basically now have a duty to hate themselves for all time.

do us zionist organisations have some sort of responsibility for influencing israeli policy decisions that push it in a certain direction? yes they do. do "jews" have some particular responsibility over it? no, and if you want to gain any sort of political support you have to stop saying this sort of shit.

To gain political support amongst the conspiracist movement and the wider hard-right as someone Jewish it's essential that you do this. Once you do this you will be used again and again as a deliberate foil.

So when someone asks 'Hang on Tony Gosling promotes insights from the Protocols why are there antisemites in this conference?', they immediately say 'how can they be antisemites, they are sharing a platform with someone Jewish from a fully Jewish family (Michael Ratner), don't go smearing people as racists who are not racists as racists'. Liberal saps will accept this, meaning the Quakers carry on hiring out their halls to these people.

Hence the conspiracist movement continues to grow so you get it infecting virtually all parts of social struggle, meaning they have to be incorporated and it is harder to isolate them because they have their fingers in so many pies.

It diverts and wrong-foots structural analyses and you end up in the absurd situation of those who are accused of libel first like Deborah Lipstadt being attacked for not reaching settlement with David Irving so that at least he would have to pay money to a charity, instead of the courts.

It allows the media to perform 'investigation' into issues simply by interviewing conspiracists as if they were structural critics of capitalism or militarism.

It allows certain figures like Beppe "I would never trust somebody with a hooked nose and I will send him to make a long walk to Gaza with a Jew skullcap on his head" Grillo (or Michael Meacher for that matter) to promote themselves as critics of the system, and eventually it infects issues like the Palestinian problem and wider left and centre-left approaches to that issue.

 

[Blagsta]

good work sihi

 

[butchersapron]

Do click on the link for each of the people in sihhi's long post as well - will show you how far even the 'good ones' like Mckinney are now part of the game.

 

[frogwoman]

To gain political support amongst the conspiracist movement and the wider hard-right as someone Jewish it's essential that you do this. Once you do this you will be used again and again as a deliberate foil.

So when someone asks 'Hang on Tony Gosling promotes insights from the Protocols why are there antisemites in this conference?', they immediately say 'how can they be antisemites, they are sharing a platform with someone Jewish from a fully Jewish family (Michael Ratner), don't go smearing people as racists who are not racists as racists'. Liberal saps will accept this, meaning the Quakers carry on hiring out their halls to these people.

Hence the conspiracist movement continues to grow so you get it infecting virtually all parts of social struggle, meaning they have to be incorporated and it is harder to isolate them because they have their fingers in so many pies.

It diverts and wrong-foots structural analyses and you end up in the absurd situation of those who are accused of libel first like Deborah Lipstadt being attacked for not reaching settlement with David Irving so that at least he would have to pay money to a charity, instead of the courts.

It allows the media to perform 'investigation' into issues simply by interviewing conspiracists as if they were structural critics of capitalism or militarism.

It allows certain figures like Beppe "I would never trust somebody with a hooked nose and I will send him to make a long walk to Gaza with a Jew skullcap on his head" Grillo (or Michael Meacher for that matter) to promote themselves as critics of the system, and eventually it infects issues like the Palestinian problem and wider left and centre-left approaches to that issue.

i meant among ordinary jewish people rather than among these cunts


the other day somebody on the train the same age as me who was obviously high or drunk started ranting on to me about david icke

i've had a few mates of mine go on about this shit as well and i considered them to relatively clued up about politics, not the anti-semite stuff but the "illuminati" bollocks

maybe i should not be worried but this stuff seems to have a lot more support and people looking into it than most people on here seem to realise, you can buy this shit in bookshops etc. it certainly seems to have more visibility than the far-left

oh fuck,

 

[sihhi]

i meant among ordinary jewish people rather than among these cunts

the other day somebody on the train the same age as me who was obviously high or drunk started ranting on to me about david icke

i've had a few mates of mine go on about this shit as well and i considered them to relatively clued up about politics, not the anti-semite stuff but the "illuminati" bollocks

oh fuck,

Recently one woman on a bus talking about the new world order promoting a film screening in Islington, when all of a sudden another passenger says that yes they've heard of it and are fans of Alex Jones on the internet, because of stuff about 9-11, how can 19 people just kill 3,000 people. I give it a go on the Alex Jones is quite a vicious anti-Mexican wants Britain to be more like USA, gives him a wider pool of people to exploit, met with 'he gives everything to what he says, he's not interested in money'.

Separately had someone at a meeting describing how the Tory-Lib Dem coalition are planning to depopulate the "ordinary people" by cuts for elderly care but maintenance of funds for family planning and contraception and no more child benefit- very coded but it's there - classic conspiracist material.

I don't know the answer to these people but leftist credibility is part of what they seek - because there are people whom they can reach from that wider territory:

Hence Jon Rees alongside David Pidcock keen proponent of the Zionist 1919 trial run Holo-hoax theory

and Jeremy Corbyn at a conference on the benefits of Islamic finance alongside antisemitic Moeen Yaseen associated with Muslims for 9/11 Truth, frequent poster on 7/7 and 9/11 truth newsgroups

Global Vision 2000 and Uniting for Peace present Transformation in the Muslim World Wednesday March 30 2011

The Jasmine revolutions continue to pave a path of sweeping change charging across the MENA (Middle East and North Africa) region. ...
In the meeting we will go beyond the hype and ask the questions:

Will the "March of Democracy over Autocracy" by people power prevail?
Are we witnessing global insurrection against neoliberal and western policies about capitalism, militarism and imperialism?
What role can Islamic finance play in terms of building a moral political economy?
What role does Islam have in these revolts and what does Islamic self determination mean in the modern world?
What does this mean for moving towards the Universal Paradigm Shift?

Speakers who will explore the ideas and solutions to the above issues are:

Moeen Yaseen Global Vision 2000
Lord Nazir Ahmed House of Lords
Baroness Nicholson House of Lords [TBC]
Jeremy Corbyn MP House of Commons
Vijay Mehta Uniting for Peace
Muhammad Rafeeq Banking consultant
David Pidcock Monetary reformer
Dr.Irfan Alawi Centre for Islamic Pluralism
Dr.Sayyed Milani ICIS
Adel Darwish Journalist and Commentator
Yvonne Ridley Press TV
Mahesh Jayanarayan UMEX Capital Markets Group

Meeting starts at 3:00pm
Free Public Meeting
Donations Welcome

House of Lords Committee Room 4a
MEDIA PARTNER Global Islamic finance magazine

Note: Please allow at least 30 minutes to progress
through security. When approaching security mention
that the meeting is being held in the House of Lords at
Committee Room 4a.

 

[butchersapron]

This is who Rees now appears with:

McKinney commented about the London conference in two postings on the Green Party's website in which she praised Mahathir ("one of my heroes") and also a man named David Pidcock, whom she called "my London friend." A British-born convert to Islam, Pidcock is the author of an extensive collection of conspiracy-laden anti-Semitic works, including the 1992 work Satanic Voices Ancient & Modern, which blames most of the world's current and ancient problems on a centuries-old conspiracy whose participants include Freemasons, Illuminati, "Luciferian Zionists," the Rockefeller family, big oil companies and the Council on Foreign Relations. The principal Internet outlet for Pidcock's writings is the website iamthewitness.com, which is devoted to fascist and anti-Semitic writings, prominently featuring The International Jew published by Henry Ford.

At the conference, McKinney was photographed with Pidcock and Michele Renouf, a former model and socialite who is considered one of Britain's leading Holocaust-denial activists.

 

[butchersapron]

SO on one hand we get Galloway "I won't debate with Israelis" and on the other we get Rees: i will appear with anti-semites. And then the left represented by them two wonders why they have no wider social credibility and so the growth of the 'outside-left-and-right' groups happens.

 

[frogwoman]

that zionist 1919 holocaust theory - that was actually from ONE newspaper article which appeared in a british newspaper saying about how russian jews were at risk of starvation and pogroms that were going on. and it was going on.

Exactly butchers.It's fucking sickening.

I didn't know about that jewish voice for peace guy in america sihhi, I ahve to say I am surprised by that, I knew they were slightly annoying american liberals but I didn't know they were that bad. One of the results of this of course is that jewish people disillusioned with zionism will end up looking into these groups and never wanting to have anything to do with anti-zionism again.

slightly depressing that i know so much about all this btw

 

[frogwoman]

This is who Rees now appears with:

oh my god that's disgusting. wasnt rees in the SWP leadership? And he's appearing alongside people who are defending that cunt mahathir mohammed etc?

 

[sihhi]

Moeen Yasin is another figure wholly aligned with Jazzz's perspective on thermite

Only a couple of weeks ago he attended the STWC major conference at Friends Meeting House Euston
to push the conspiracist line, which is then faithfully reported by Tony Gosling

"from Global Vision 2000 Moheen Yaseen wrote:
At a parallel session focussing on Islamophobia today at the STWC’s conference, “Confronting the War ten years on” there was an amazing revelation and public exchange of views between Moeen Yaseen the Managing Director of the independent Islamic think tank Global Vision 2000 and John Rees leading Marxist atheist doyen of Stop the War Coalition. Moeen Yaseen stated that he had issues with the movement which still have not been addressed nor on the agenda. He stated that it was good that some speakers such as Salma Yaqoob was using the term GWOT- the Global War OF Terror which Global Vision 2000 had promoted. However, if we are going to deal with Islamophobia we need to challenge the official narrative which accuses Muslims and Islam of being mass murderers and religious sponsored terrorism which is the basis of the ongoing war. The latest research documents that thermite i.e. military grade nuclear material was used in bringing down the twin towers. We need to ask ourselves who would benefit and like to continue a global war between Islam and Christianity? He also stated that these big lies are being continuously peddled now in the Hollywood film ZERO DARK 30 which focusses on the assassination of Osama bin Laden on May 2 2011. Yet he had died over a decade ago according to the late Pakistani premier Benazir Bhutto."

Tony Gosling is part of the Icke network and is regularly linked and is a keen conspiracist Christian rightist via his Bristol Community Radio show, and so eager to promote a Muslim rightist approach as well.

 

[Random]

What's the deal on Michael Moore and antisemitism?

 

[frogwoman]

moore?

I didn't know he was an anti-semite, he did imply in one of his books that the saudi gov't could have known about 9/11 and bush etc did nothing about it though. This is all to depressing I might have to leave this for a while. Anyone want to know why people still support the Israeli gov't (or live in ignorance about what it's doing) look no further than this thread btw.

 

[Random]

Sorry! Sihi said Michael Meacher

 

[frogwoman]

I hope moore isn't, I know he is a liberal and all that but I did like Fahrenheit 9/11 and the other one